What is the loudest Decibal rateing on the X5?

dman777 · 09-19-2005, 01:00

Does anyone know what is the official max. decibal rateing of the X5?

Thanks,
-Dman

zerone · 09-19-2005, 01:08

That depends on the hardware you are using to reproduce the actual sound.

EgoPro · 09-19-2005, 01:10

This is imo by the quality and output off your speaker/headphones

dman777 · 09-19-2005, 20:28

No, it's not dependent on the external hardware. In Europe, they have a law where an mp3 player can not go over 100 decibels when it's manufactured and sold. The reason why I was asking is because I am trying to keep track of the volume I lestion to so I won't damage my hearing and if I had the max decibel rateing then I could figure out which volume number would be around 60 decibels which is labeled safe for lestioning to for 8 hours.

Pete7874 · 09-19-2005, 20:49

It is dependent on the external hardware. A manufacturer may provide a decibel rating for the headphones that it provides with the device, but that can't stop anyone from using a different set of headphones with a different sensitivity level.

dman777 · 09-20-2005, 08:04

That's not true because there are programs that you can hook up your ipod from europe to and it will remove the 100 decibel limit. So it is internel with in the unit.

Pete7874 · 09-20-2005, 08:46

You do not have any decibel, until you connect some speakers (headphones) to the X5. The X5 on its own is not able to generate any audible sounds (unless you count the HDD spinning) until you connect it with some speakers (headphones). The sensitivity of the headphones will determine how loud the sound will get. For example, I have two sets of headphones, one is rated at 108 dB, the other is rated at 102 dB, and I can clearly hear that the former ones are noticeably louder (I don't have to crank up my X5 as much).

The decibel limit you are talking about most likely assumes the OEM headphones.

dman777 · 09-20-2005, 18:16

If there were decibel limits on the headphones then you wouldn't need to hack your IPOD break that limit, you could simply just buy new headphones. To get this straight and clear, there IS decibal rateings on the unit itself and not just the speakers or headphones. If you google you will find numerous sites on overcomeing the Eurpoean limit by hacking your MP3 player. NOTICE THIS SAYS THE PLAYER ITSELF, NOT THE HEADPHONES OR SPEAKERS. I DON'T KNOW HOW TO BE MORE CLEAR THAT THE PLAYER ITSELF DOES HAVE A DECIBEL RATEING. HERE ARE SOME LINKS IN PROVEING SO:

http://www.espen.se/index.php?subact..._from=&ucat=1&

http://www.randgruppe.info/ipod/

Pete7874 · 09-20-2005, 18:30

I don't question that it is possible to increase the amp's volume output in the ipod. But in the links you provided, nowhere does it say anything about decibel level being inherent to the ipod itself.

Now, I'm not going to try to argue with you. I can only suggest that you read up on the technical aspects of sensitivity, decibels, and sound pressure to realize that an amplifier (such as that inside an ipod or X5) alone cannot determine those. The amp only delivers certain amount of power (expressed in Watts or milliwatts in this case). But how that power gets translated into audible sounds and how loud they will get to a large extent depends on the speakers/headphones that you connect to it. For example, a speaker rated at 90 dB will sound twice as loud as a speaker rated at 87 dB when connected to the same amplifier (think X5 or ipod).

Tramp · 09-21-2005, 19:04

Searching around for this alleged EU law/directive, I did not find a single quotable link to it. However, compiling the hearsay I read in various places, something like the following may be true:

- due to french legislation Apple was forced in 2002 to take its ithing off the shelf and limit the output-level with the supplied earphones to 100db. This was of course done in firmware and there are ways to overcome this limitation.
- in 2003 something similar to this french law became an EU directive. Member states of the EU have to adopt their national law within a 3 year period to match this directive. Thus it either will become national law in 2006 the latest

I remember to have read somewhere in this forum, that the x5 is not available in France, because it does not fulfill this regulation (and I actually don't see it on e.g amazon.fr). Maybe somebody from France can confirm. However, it is definitely available in other EU countries. I thus conclude:
- it does not fulfill the "100db" directive
- this directive is not yet effective in some (many? most?) EU countries.
- if the hearsay I compiled above is true, Cowon will have to "take measures" to fulfill this
directive if they want to continue selling the x5 in the EU. Probably we will see a "European version" of the firmware

As to dman777s original question: I have no clue.

But, from what I picked up on the way:
- 85db is considered safe for 8h exposure and this is the equivalent of 100db for 15 minutes (equivalent in the sense of "having the same impact on your hearing")
- the 60db you state is very, very silent and probably even save for 7/24 :-)

Konechiwa · 09-21-2005, 19:39

cant they just go to the US or some other country and pick one up?

how can you tell? I listen to my music at about 13 max (on some i listen to it louder because the music is encoded and is a lot quiter, so normally it would be 13, but since its quite it is the same at 18).

Rianu · 03-15-2006, 00:43

is there some valid method to test this at home? i got my x5 from a german shop, so i'd like to try it out ^^

Zephyron · 03-15-2006, 05:18

X5 max volume is around 107dB, taken off somewhere in these forums.
Don't own the X5, so I can't test it for myself XP

Thasp · 03-15-2006, 05:50

100 dB limit is impossible.

If I am using headphones that go 90 dB with one milliwatt, and I then use headphones that go to 112 dB with one milliwatt, obviously, the 100 dB limit is not in effect. Those iPods do not have a dB limit, they have a milliwatt cap. It's all in the sensitivity of the headphones, there can't be a set limit unless you are comparing headphones of identical sensitivity. Even then, different kinds of distortion would raise the volume more.

The fact that the leaders of France decided that the entire country had to endure neutered DAPs that would never be able to power a real pair of 'phones makes me wonder why the U.S.'s leaders are always the ones under the microscope. If Bush attempted to get such legislation passed, he'd be out of office.

The D · 03-15-2006, 05:55

Bloody hell!!!!!!!!!!!

The volume depends on the Sensitivity and Impedance of the headphones and how much power the X5 can put out with that load.

dman777 just go and STFU.

09-19-2005, 01:00	#1
dman777 Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 131	Does anyone know what is the official max. decibal rateing of the X5? Thanks, -Dman __________________ Support Israel!

09-19-2005, 01:10	#3
EgoPro X5punk Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: tHe nEtherlands, Zwolle Posts: 137	This is imo by the quality and output off your speaker/headphones __________________ -= So long and thanks for all the Fish =- -= Iaudio X5L 20 GB inc. Remote Control =-

09-19-2005, 20:28	#4
dman777 Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 131	No, it's not dependent on the external hardware. In Europe, they have a law where an mp3 player can not go over 100 decibels when it's manufactured and sold. The reason why I was asking is because I am trying to keep track of the volume I lestion to so I won't damage my hearing and if I had the max decibel rateing then I could figure out which volume number would be around 60 decibels which is labeled safe for lestioning to for 8 hours. __________________ Support Israel!

09-19-2005, 20:49	#5
Pete7874 X5 killa Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 738	It is dependent on the external hardware. A manufacturer may provide a decibel rating for the headphones that it provides with the device, but that can't stop anyone from using a different set of headphones with a different sensitivity level. __________________ X5 20GB + Shure E2C

09-20-2005, 08:04	#6
dman777 Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 131	That's not true because there are programs that you can hook up your ipod from europe to and it will remove the 100 decibel limit. So it is internel with in the unit. __________________ Support Israel!

09-19-2005, 01:08	#2
zerone Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 29	That depends on the hardware you are using to reproduce the actual sound.

09-20-2005, 08:46	#7
Pete7874 X5 killa Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 738	You do not have any decibel, until you connect some speakers (headphones) to the X5. The X5 on its own is not able to generate any audible sounds (unless you count the HDD spinning) until you connect it with some speakers (headphones). The sensitivity of the headphones will determine how loud the sound will get. For example, I have two sets of headphones, one is rated at 108 dB, the other is rated at 102 dB, and I can clearly hear that the former ones are noticeably louder (I don't have to crank up my X5 as much). The decibel limit you are talking about most likely assumes the OEM headphones. __________________ X5 20GB + Shure E2C

09-20-2005, 18:16	#8
dman777 Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 131	If there were decibel limits on the headphones then you wouldn't need to hack your IPOD break that limit, you could simply just buy new headphones. To get this straight and clear, there IS decibal rateings on the unit itself and not just the speakers or headphones. If you google you will find numerous sites on overcomeing the Eurpoean limit by hacking your MP3 player. NOTICE THIS SAYS THE PLAYER ITSELF, NOT THE HEADPHONES OR SPEAKERS. I DON'T KNOW HOW TO BE MORE CLEAR THAT THE PLAYER ITSELF DOES HAVE A DECIBEL RATEING. HERE ARE SOME LINKS IN PROVEING SO: http://www.espen.se/index.php?subact..._from=&ucat=1& http://www.randgruppe.info/ipod/ __________________ Support Israel!

09-20-2005, 18:30	#9
Pete7874 X5 killa Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 738	I don't question that it is possible to increase the amp's volume output in the ipod. But in the links you provided, nowhere does it say anything about decibel level being inherent to the ipod itself. Now, I'm not going to try to argue with you. I can only suggest that you read up on the technical aspects of sensitivity, decibels, and sound pressure to realize that an amplifier (such as that inside an ipod or X5) alone cannot determine those. The amp only delivers certain amount of power (expressed in Watts or milliwatts in this case). But how that power gets translated into audible sounds and how loud they will get to a large extent depends on the speakers/headphones that you connect to it. For example, a speaker rated at 90 dB will sound twice as loud as a speaker rated at 87 dB when connected to the same amplifier (think X5 or ipod). __________________ X5 20GB + Shure E2C

09-21-2005, 19:04	#10
Tramp ? Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Europe Posts: 41	Searching around for this alleged EU law/directive, I did not find a single quotable link to it. However, compiling the hearsay I read in various places, something like the following may be true: - due to french legislation Apple was forced in 2002 to take its ithing off the shelf and limit the output-level with the supplied earphones to 100db. This was of course done in firmware and there are ways to overcome this limitation. - in 2003 something similar to this french law became an EU directive. Member states of the EU have to adopt their national law within a 3 year period to match this directive. Thus it either will become national law in 2006 the latest I remember to have read somewhere in this forum, that the x5 is not available in France, because it does not fulfill this regulation (and I actually don't see it on e.g amazon.fr). Maybe somebody from France can confirm. However, it is definitely available in other EU countries. I thus conclude: - it does not fulfill the "100db" directive - this directive is not yet effective in some (many? most?) EU countries. - if the hearsay I compiled above is true, Cowon will have to "take measures" to fulfill this directive if they want to continue selling the x5 in the EU. Probably we will see a "European version" of the firmware As to dman777s original question: I have no clue. But, from what I picked up on the way: - 85db is considered safe for 8h exposure and this is the equivalent of 100db for 15 minutes (equivalent in the sense of "having the same impact on your hearing") - the 60db you state is very, very silent and probably even save for 7/24 :-)

09-21-2005, 19:39	#11
Konechiwa used to be #1 poster Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Western Washington State, USA Posts: 1,607	cant they just go to the US or some other country and pick one up? how can you tell? I listen to my music at about 13 max (on some i listen to it louder because the music is encoded and is a lot quiter, so normally it would be 13, but since its quite it is the same at 18). __________________

03-15-2006, 00:43	#12
Rianu S(even of)9 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Germany Posts: 355	is there some valid method to test this at home? i got my x5 from a german shop, so i'd like to try it out ^^

03-15-2006, 05:18	#13
Zephyron Ultimate Portability Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In-between sound systems Posts: 177	X5 max volume is around 107dB, taken off somewhere in these forums. Don't own the X5, so I can't test it for myself XP __________________ Portable Rig: Cowon iAudio U3 + PINT Amplifier + Shure E4G or Audio Technica ATH-CK7

03-15-2006, 05:50	#14
Thasp Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 259	100 dB limit is impossible. If I am using headphones that go 90 dB with one milliwatt, and I then use headphones that go to 112 dB with one milliwatt, obviously, the 100 dB limit is not in effect. Those iPods do not have a dB limit, they have a milliwatt cap. It's all in the sensitivity of the headphones, there can't be a set limit unless you are comparing headphones of identical sensitivity. Even then, different kinds of distortion would raise the volume more. The fact that the leaders of France decided that the entire country had to endure neutered DAPs that would never be able to power a real pair of 'phones makes me wonder why the U.S.'s leaders are always the ones under the microscope. If Bush attempted to get such legislation passed, he'd be out of office.

03-15-2006, 05:55	#15
The D Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 57	Bloody hell!!!!!!!!!!! The volume depends on the Sensitivity and Impedance of the headphones and how much power the X5 can put out with that load. dman777 just go and STFU.

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