How to Create Playlists, 2.23

[jungleguru]

I mainly use J3 in Folder mode. Can I create playlists on the J3, or do I need to use my PC?

If using my PC to create them, can i use any of the following software,

FooBar2000
MP3Tag
RealPlayer
Cowon Media Centre
VLC

[DSperber]

Originally Posted by jungleguru

I mainly use J3 in Folder mode. Can I create playlists on the J3, or do I need to use my PC?

Stock Cowon firmware does not support the creation of M3U playlists.

However it DOES support the creation of a single "Favorites" list, which has a limit of 250 files. Not that great, and quickly exceeded... but it does support music files located on both internal and external storage of the J3 to be added to that one Favorites list.

If you install the Aero UCI (see this thread in the UCI forum) then you CAN create on-the-fly playlists on the J3, which CAN refer to music files on both internal and external storage. However again, these are not M3U playlists, and since I've not done this myself I don't know if there are an unlimited number of such playlists supported but I do know that there are at least 3 or 4 supported, if not many more or unlimited.

Now if you do want to use PC software to create M3U playlists and transfer them to the J3, you are limited to music file references that are only on internal storage of the J3. The M3U playlists cannot reference music files on external storage of the J3... this is simply a built-in limitation of the Cowon software that they still have not addressed, if ever they will.

So, if you have no external storage, then you have no worries. M3U playlists are perfect. But if you have external storage for music files (as you do), you cannot use M3U playlist successfully unless you're willing to live with music files referenced by those M3U playlists carefully located on internal storage only. (note that if your M3U playlist does reference a music file on external storage, it will simply be ignored by the J3. there's no harm done.)

If using my PC to create them, can i use any of the following software,

FooBar2000
MP3Tag
RealPlayer
Cowon Media Centre
VLC

A number of other programs can be used as well, such as Winamp, Playlist Creator, Media Monkey, Cowon's Jet Audio, etc.

But as I stated above, if you want to use M3U playlists on the J3 then you have to live with the limitation of being able to only reference music files that live on internal storage of the J3.

You should build your M3U playlists by referencing the music files from their actual location on J3 internal storage, not from their location on your PC. And the M3U playlists should probably be stored in one folder on the J3, probably \Playlists. However the J3 will search for and find M3U playlists anywhere on internal storage of the J3, so under \Playlists is not required but only seems reasonable.

Also, whatever PC utility program you use must create M3U playlists using a syntax that looks like one of the following acceptable M3U playlist formats that are understood by the J3:

(1) Produced by Cowon's JetAudio program:

#EXTM3U
#EXTINF:255,Desperado
W:\Music\Eagles, The\Hell Freezes Over\Desperado.mp3
#EXTINF:432,Hotel California
W:\Music\Eagles, The\Hell Freezes Over\Hotel California.mp3


(2) Produced by Winamp:

#EXTM3U
#EXTINF:255,Eagles, The - Desperado
\Music\Eagles, The\Hell Freezes Over\Desperado.mp3
#EXTINF:432,Eagles, The - Hotel California
\Music\Eagles, The\Hell Freezes Over\Hotel California.mp3


(3) Produced by Playlist Creator:

#EXTM3U
#EXTINF:255,Hell Freezes Over - 15 - Desperado
..\Music\Eagles, The\Hell Freezes Over\Desperado.mp3
#EXTINF:432,Hell Freezes Over - 6 - Hotel California
..\Music\Eagles, The\Hell Freezes Over\Hotel California.mp3


Note that these all involve #EXTM3U as the first line, and all music references are 2-line #EXTINF structured.

Also, whereas the first syntax would be considered "absolute" if used for a PC music collection, with absolute Windows drive letters involved so that music files could be referenced from multiple drive locations (as they are allowed to be, for example, with M3U playlists supported by Winamp) these Windows drive letters are simply ignored by the J3 if present. That's another reason the referenced music files can only be on internal storage... because the J3 firmware doesn't know how to interpret multiple drive letters (which would really support internal and external storage M3U playlists, if Cowon wanted to define two special "drive letters" for users to conform to which would mean "internal storage" and "external storage").

Also, the last two syntax examples are "relative" if used for a PC music collection, referring to the current drive letter from which the M3U playlist file itself was retrieved. Since \Playlists is on "internal storage" along with the \Music music files referenced in the M3U playlists, if you use say Winamp to both reference the music files (into the Playlist Editor window) from the J3 internal storage Windows drive letter, and then "save playlist" into the \Playlists folder also on the same J3 internal storage Windows drive letter, Winamp will automatically create the syntax in the M3U playlsit example shown... since the referenced music files and saved M3U file location are on the same Windows drive letter corresponding to J3 internal storage.

[jungleguru]

Nice one for that. I'm running Chakra final version. Might give Aero a try. Shame that playlists cannot reference the Ext. Storage, hopefully that may be sorted out in future firmware. After all the problems noted with 2.24 / 2.25, i'll stick with 2.23 for time being, even though I don't think I have music older than 40 years.

[DSperber]

One more possible workaround to the M3U limitation on the J3 of only supporting music files on internal storage...

This may or may not work for you, but if it does then it's perfect: "genre-playlists".

Since the J3 builds a tag database at each boot which includes searching all music files on both internal and external storage, if you don't really need your "genre" tag field values to be meaningful but you desperately want some kind of unlimited size playlist capability that supports music files on both internal and external storage, you could simply change the "genre" value in the tag of each music file you wanted to include in a particular "playlist" as say something like "Playlist1".

Bingo! All music files, no matter where they are, now have a genre value of "Playlist1" and if you browse using Music -> [Genres] and select what will be shown as "[Playlist1]"... you're home free. You've just started playing the conceptual playlist represented by "Playlist1", including all of the music files you tagged as "genre-playlist" value of "Playlist1".

Well, you have no limit to the number of these artificial genre-playlist values you make up, so you have no limit to the number of these genre-playlists collections of music files.

And, they can be for music files on both internal and external storage.

However since there's only one "genre" field in a tag, each music file can appear in only one such genre-playlist, which may or may not work for you.


Anyway, those are the restrictions or consequences of using this approach, and there are the benefits.

Given that there is no other way to use a PC program to in some way do playlist creation that supports music files on both internal and external storage of the J3, your options are quite limited.

Yes, you can use Cowon's "Favorites" and be limited to a single playlist that is limited to 250 tracks.

Yes, you can use Aero UCI, which probably is somewhat or completely unlimited, and includes support for music files on both internal and external J3 storage, but which requires you to manually build those playlists one track at a time using the J3 itself. I'm guessing the stored playlists inside of some folder on the J3 can probably be copied to the PC for preservation, but unless your J3 music file is also copied to match I would think the saved copy of the playlists would be unusable if you updated your J3 music collection and moved things around. Anyway, this is some sort of solution... with considerations.

Yes, you can use my genre-playlist trick, if you're content to include music files in no more than one playlist. If that works for you, you can use PC program tools (like MP3Tag) to do a mass-change of "genre" in the tag fields of every file you've included in your playlist-to-be, to "Playlist1", "Playlist2", etc., ON YOUR PC MUSIC COLLECTION ITSELF! Then when you copy those music files to the J3, you will automatically be exporting the implied genre-playlists represented by the "genre" tag field in each of this specially marked files. You don't need to do anything on the J3, except select your playlists using Music -> [Genres]! And there are no actual M3U playlists to fool with.


And all this because Cowon doesn't support M3U playlist that refer to music files on both internal and external storage.

Note that M3U playlists require MSC connection of the J3 to the PC. If you are willing to change to MTP connection mode (and stay there forever, and never return to MSC) you can use PLA playlists... which DO support music files on both internal and external storage of the J3. The J3 understands PLA playlists while it is in MTP mode, so if you build PLA playlists (from the PC) while in MTP mode then you CAN refer to music files on the entire J3.

This sounds terrific!!! And it is... since a PLA playlist shows up in Music -> [Playlists] just like an M3U playlist would, plus it supports music files on both internal and external storage.

Sounds like no downside.

Well there is a downside... in particular there is only one program known that CAN actually build these PLA playlists to support music files on both internal and external storage of the J3, and that program is Windows Explorer. No other program can support PLA playlists at all, or can only support PLA playlists that refer to music files on internal storage of the J3. Only Windows Explorer can do it all!

Also, many standard Windows "file manager" type programs that present the customary "Explorer View" of folders and files, require actual Windows drive letters as part of their presentation. Since MTP connection mode does NOT assign a Windows drive letter to internal or external storage of the J3, you can't use these other "file manager" or "sync" programs you might want to. These programs would only be usable if the J3 was in MSC connection mode, where Windows drive letters ARE assigned. Once again, only Windows Explorer can actually be used to COPY/MOVE/DELETE music files to the J3 with complete reliability.

But... if you're willing to live in MTP mode forever (since reverting to MSC mode would destroy all of your PLA playlists), and if you're willing to use Windows Explorer for ALL of your J3's needs... both PLA playlist construction and maintenance, as well as copying and maintaining music files on the J3, then you CAN use PLA playlists on the J3 which DO right now support referencing music files on both internal and external storage.

So MTP/PLA is yet another option for you.

[DSperber]

Originally Posted by jungleguru

I don't think I have music older than 40 years.

That's 40 DISTINCTLY DIFFERENT years.

Apparently Cowon constrained their tag database to have only 40 columns for these 40 year values. So each row (i.e. music file) can have its year value "check" placed in only one of those 40 columns, which are for 40 DISTINCT years.

If the year in a tag is not one of the 40 already populated (if all 40 columns have already been added, indicating that they're already populated from other music file "year" tag field values meaning that 40 distinct years have already been detected), then you're SOL. That music file (or rather the driving "year" of that music file) will simply not be "picked" for display when you browse Music -> [Years], since the year of that unfortunate music file is not one of the 40 that have been tabulated in the database.

[Kizune]

jungleguru, I recommend you to use Lynx instead of Chakra. It's way better, more professional and a lot faster - that's why it's Chakra's successor^^.


Playlists from Aero Music are tag-dependent, which means as soon as you change either the title, artist or album tag, the file disappears from all playlists.
All playlists are stored in /System/Flash UI/SOL/aero_music_plmgr.sol
You can have up to 1.79769313*10^308 playlists. I guess that's enough.
(You can't write exponents in this forum... if you want to see the formatted number: http://www.google.de/search?q=1.7976931348623158*10^308)

[jungleguru]

Very interesting. You certainly know your stuff. The whole topic arose when I had a house party recently, running off my J3. As I didn't have time / know how to create them, I spent alot of time going back & forth to the J3, and at some point due to liqour, just put it on Random. What I wanted to do was create a kick-ass playlist for the entire night, now I know how, Many Thanks, .

[jungleguru]

Originally Posted by Kizune

jungleguru, I recommend you to use Lynx instead of Chakra. It's way better, more professional and a lot faster - that's why it's Chakra's successor^^.


Playlists from Aero Music are tag-dependent, which means as soon as you change either the title, artist or album tag, the file disappears from all playlists.
All playlists are stored in /System/Flash UI/SOL/aero_music_plmgr.sol
You can have up to 1.79769313*10^308 playlists. I guess that's enough.
(You can't write exponents in this forum... if you want to see the formatted number: http://www.google.de/search?q=1.7976931348623158*10^308)

I haven't been to this forum since Dec/Jan, so did not know there was a successor. I'll check it out, as Chakra was wicked.

[KaliKot]

Does the playlist limitation still apply to 2.25?

Also, is there a limit to the number of entries?

This is certainly one huge bulletpoint where Apple has Cowon owned

[DSperber]

Originally Posted by KaliKot

Does the playlist limitation still apply to 2.25?

Which limitation(s) are you asking about?

Using Cowon 2.25 firmware, you still cannot have a single M3U playlist referencing music files on both internal and external storage.

But with 2.25 it's been reported that you can now actually have an M3U playlist located on internal storage which refers to music files on internal storage, and you can ALSO have an M3U playlist located on external storage which refers to music files on external storage. The external piece has not been possible before now.

Also, is there a limit to the number of entries?

No change here. I think this maximum is still 400 as I recall, for an M3U playlist.

[KaliKot]

Originally Posted by DSperber

Which limitation(s) are you asking about?

Using Cowon 2.25 firmware, you still cannot have a single M3U playlist referencing music files on both internal and external storage.

But with 2.25 it's been reported that you can now actually have an M3U playlist located on internal storage which refers to music files on internal storage, and you can ALSO have an M3U playlist located on external storage which refers to music files on external storage. The external piece has not been possible before now.


No change here. I think this maximum is still 400 as I recall, for an M3U playlist.

Ok thanks for that Kinda sad being thrown back into the dark ages of playlist making after being spoiled by Apple's extensive playlist options

[nehrou]

Originally Posted by KaliKot

Ok thanks for that Kinda sad being thrown back into the dark ages of playlist making after being spoiled by Apple's extensive playlist options

yh it sucks that Cowon doesn't offer this feature, but for where it lacks here it definitely beats Apple in the SQ offered by a mile and some more

[DSperber]

It should be stated that the Cowon limitations on M3U playlists pertain strictly to M3U playlists, and the supporting MSC mode of connecting to the PC. Since MSC mode implies Windows drive letters(s) assigned for the Cowon internal and external storage, and since 100% of Windows programs (e.g. media players, playlist utilities, sync/manager utilities, file organizers, etc.) work with Windows drive letters, anything less than this is certainly a negative.

But, if you can tolerate MTP mode instead of MSC mode, and you don't mind being restricted to using Windows Explorer as your only tool for copy/sync files from PC to J3, then you CAN build PLA format playlists using Windows Explorer. And PLA playlists can refer to music files on BOTH internal and external storage.

Unfortunately, if you do use MTP connections and you do use PLA playlists, then you must "promise" never again to return back to MSC mode else you will thereby destroy all of your PLA playlists and they cannot be repaired. They will need to be deleted and rebuilt if you want to come back to MTP mode.

But, PLA playlists are understood fully by the J3, and DO support music files on both internal and external storage. I honestly don't know if there's any limit whatsoever on the size of a PLA playlist. But I do know that only Windows Explorer can actually create/modify PLA playlists which refer to music files on both internal and external storage... if this goal is significant to you. You just need to also use MTP connections only, which will give you NO Windows drives letters, thus making many 3rd-party Windows programs incapable of handling the J3 while connected in MTP mode.

[GregVDS]

Anyone a solution for Mac users and playlists :-) ?