Testing of H264 Codec Main Profile.

[bootlegapparel]

Well I've just done some testing myself. Some weird but good and interesting results...

Firmware 1.18.

I'm using SUPER to do the encoding 29.97 FPS.

I used two files, the first one fucked up so I started using a different one.

First file was a WMA; 1900kbps Video, WMA audio as well. I set it to 336kbps for all of the first tests and the audio was just a straight copy on these first 4, so still in WMA format.


H264 BP 760x576:
No problems. No sound though.

H264 BP 1280x760:
Plays slowly. Probably 15 FPS. No sound.

H264 MP 320x240:
Plays in fast forward??? No sound.

H264 MP 760x576:
Says does not support high resolution???

I used a different starting video for these next ones, an MPEG-1, 3900 kbps. Seemed like the last file kept fucking up my results so i started again.
Audio was re-encoded to 128kbps for all of these. 29FPS. H264 Main profile.

H264 MP 480x320 360kbps:
Works perfectly fine.

H264 MP 480x320 2.0 360kbps:
Works fine.

H264 MP 480x320 630kbps:
Works fine.

H264 MP 480x320 1000kbps:
Works perfectly fine. Looks great too

H264 MP 640x480 360kbps:
Works fine.

H264 MP 640x480 750kbps:
Works fine.

H264 MP 720x480 360kbps:
Works fine.

H264 MP 720x480 1.1 360kbps:
Works fine.

H264 MP 720x480 500kbps:
Works fine.

H264 MP 720x480 500kbps 5.1:
Works fine.

H264 MP 720x480 1000kbps:
Works fine.

H264 MP 720x480 1200kbps 5.1:
Works fine.

H264 MP 720x480 1500kbps:
Works okay, maybe a little slowdown. Probably would get annoying and not watchable.

H264 MP 800x480 500kbps:
Same slow down as below.

H264 MP 800x480 1000kbps:
Same slow down as below.

H264 MP 800x480 1500kbps:
Same slow down as below.

H264 MP 720x480 2000kbps:
Some intermittent skipping, not really watchable.

H264 MP 800x640 550kbps:
Works, but there is a slight slow down, over a period of 1min the audio was about 5 seconds ahead of the video

H264 MP 800x640 1000kbps:
Same slow down as above.

H264 MP 720x480 1000kbps feature length (hour and a bit long movie):
Seems fine.


So there you go, Main profile works fine. It's just it seems to have a max resolution of 720x480 and a max bit rate of around 1200kbps for it to play back without any slowdown.

Can't really explain the first file though, it did not play sound in that one either, maybe it was the WMA that fucked it up or something not sure? Maybe it's a bit temperamental. But the second file I used, I had absolutely no trouble with.

[bootlegapparel]

Anyone know any programs like super that have H264 High profile so I can do some testing on that?

Also, doesn't anyone care that main profile works fine? lol

[sdlvx]

Everyone is too busy talking about how Cowon sold us a PMP that claims to do h.264MP and doesn't to read this thread.

But i highly appreciate your testing. It's good to see everything is improving. Maybe just a little bit more, and we'll be there.

[pmrdij]

Originally Posted by sdlvx

Everyone is too busy talking about how Cowon sold us a PMP that claims to do h.264MP and doesn't to read this thread.

But i highly appreciate your testing. It's good to see everything is improving. Maybe just a little bit more, and we'll be there.

LOL, i read this several times yesterday so i am sure a large portion of the "views" statistic figure is due to me. as for the appreciation i second that. i'm going to give SUPER a shot here soon as judging by my results with XviD b-frames/qpel/gmc it isn't the encoder i should be bothering with.

- Robert (PmR)DeathInJune

[WizMaster]

Hmm, interesting. Does MP automagically include B-frames? I think that's what causes a lot of issues (even on XVID). Also, according to the new firmware (which has some issues with it so I reverted back for now) they are now testing HP support. I couldn't do much testing before (new job, woot) but I will try to test as much as possible now. I just need to find good tools and a few tutorials (if needed). I think I'll use Elephant's Dream for testing.

[bootlegapparel]

Originally Posted by WizMaster

Hmm, interesting. Does MP automagically include B-frames? I think that's what causes a lot of issues (even on XVID). Also, according to the new firmware (which has some issues with it so I reverted back for now) they are now testing HP support. I couldn't do much testing before (new job, woot) but I will try to test as much as possible now. I just need to find good tools and a few tutorials (if needed). I think I'll use Elephant's Dream for testing.

No, not that I can see anyways, B-frames is an option in SUPER, so I might try some ones with B-frames and see how they go later on.

[austinv]

Good effort, but your conclusion is incorrect.

The spec for H264-MP includes b-frames. See here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264

The current firmware does not play H264 video correctly if it was encoded with b-frames. Hence, H264 Main Profile does not work.

I have tested it thoroughly with several encoders. See here:
http://www.iaudiophile.net/forums/sh...8&postcount=24
http://www.iaudiophile.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=20153
http://www.iaudiophile.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=18637

IIRC, SUPER is simply a front-end for ffmeg and/or mencoder. If you encode video using the "Main Profile" setting in an application, but you don't use the "b-frames" option, you are basically encoding with the "Base Profile" spec since that is one of the main difference between them.

Please edit your post accordingly or I will, so as not to confuse people. Thanks.

[pmrdij]

Originally Posted by bootlegapparel

No, not that I can see anyways, B-frames is an option in SUPER, so I might try some ones with B-frames and see how they go later on.

wait so b-frames weren't used in your testing ? ban him Austin .

well this is just about it for me... if i can get 1280x720 XviD with b-frames/qpel/gmc working through SUPER i might be happy enough to keep my A3 but seriously i bought it with H.264-MP being the primary point of interest. sure hope i see a firmware update somewhere in the next 10 days before my 30 day return window closes..

- Robert (PmR)DeathInJune

[bootlegapparel]

So if B-frames are an integral part of H264 main profile, why are they an option?
That's supers fault then...

And I just did 3 quick simple tests:

Main Profile Level 1.

B frames number:2

720x480 500kbps
480x320 300kbps
320x240 300kbps

They all work fine.


Austin give SUPER a go in case i'm doing something wrong, but they're all working for me.


I'm a bit bored so i'll try out MediaCoder and see if it's different to Super.

[bootlegapparel]

same thing with mediacoder.

The only limit seems to be that you need not expect TOO much and just keep the resolution down a little lower, seems like the processor can't keep up with higher res.

in fact i'd say if you're going for Main profile, at least with the ones i've encoded, you need to sit around 640x480 maximum.

[Nodnol]

If Austinv doesn't give a go - I will at the weekend. It's still not really HD if you can have such a limited resolution - but you can't say it doesn't support MP when if it does???

I think you have done some great testing here, even if it's not what we want from the machine.

If it can be corroborated, bootlegapparel should be applauded for all the work he has put into this.

[bootlegapparel]

Or be terribly laughed at when it turns out i've made some really simple silly mistake

but yeah as far as i can tell everythings fine, but i'm no pro at this

[pmrdij]

Originally Posted by bootlegapparel

Or be terribly laughed at when it turns out i've made some really simple silly mistake

but yeah as far as i can tell everythings fine, but i'm no pro at this

i'm not laughing --> i took the 1.18beta plunge earlier this evening (so far no ill results as a result of such that i can find). then i used MediaCoder to produce a 1000kbps 720x480 .mp4 file using level 1 (not sure if you experienced this but i had to set that in the Advanced panel) and b-frames = 2. audio was LC-AAC 160kbps. for the most part this was a playable file, however, there were some slow downs experienced and some frame drops here and there.

going to re-encode the same file using 128 on the audio and see if that has any impact. if not i'll lower the kbps on the video and so on.

- Robert (PmR)DIJ

[bootlegapparel]

Originally Posted by pmrdij

i'm not laughing --> i took the 1.18beta plunge earlier this evening (so far no ill results as a result of such that i can find). then i used MediaCoder to produce a 1000kbps 720x480 .mp4 file using level 1 (not sure if you experienced this but i had to set that in the Advanced panel) and b-frames = 2. audio was LC-AAC 160kbps. for the most part this was a playable file, however, there were some slow downs experienced and some frame drops here and there.

going to re-encode the same file using 128 on the audio and see if that has any impact. if not i'll lower the kbps on the video and so on.

- Robert (PmR)DIJ

Maybe try using just simple MP3 with 128 and see how that goes, also from my testing I wouldn't advise anything over 1000kbps.

But yeah, good to see someone else can get it working too.

[elviselvis]

to make .mp4 h264 files playable you have to do this:

1) disable CABAC
2) set maximum number of b-frames to zero
3) disable deblocking (to aviod graphical bugs)
4) h264 level set to 5.1
5) maximal bitrate set to 2000 kbps (at 3000 kbps A3 start to skipping frames)
6) number of reference frames set to 6 (7 or more A3 will not play, shows only black picture and plays only audio)
7) limit maximal resolution into rectangle into 800x480 because in this resolution A3 don`t have to resize it while playing (so allowed resolutions are for example 800x300 or 640x480), in higher it skipping frames and audio/video asychronization appear
note: this is not so important to be exactly display`s 800x480, you can set it to lower values because due to this bug http://iaudiophile.net/forums/showthread.php?t=20188 in Cowon A3 firmware will be unfortunately always video viewed blurred (no matter what resolution it has)
8) audio codec to AAC-LC (low-complexity profile) up to 160 kpbs stereo
9) use .mp4 container, NOT .AVI !!!!!! because avi is not suited to h264, avi is very old container which will carry h264 only with problems