What's the D2 like?

[Nazo]

I've been using a 2GB U3 for probably some two years now. I've been very hard pressed to be willing to change it for anything. Lately though, I've been using more music videos and FLAC files so I started thinking about the 4GB U3 (I still don't want to get any of the others out there I've seen -- the U3 is just so absolutely perfect for me...)

I happened upon the D2 and noticed with shock that it's actually within my pricerange. With apparently the option to plug in SD cards (I assume only 2GB? It doesn't say SDHC that I could see at least, but then a lot of things are unclear on this despite the fact that devices that do not support SDHC absolutely will not work with them, thus making such a distinction rather important) I could actually start carrying some videos with me, which seems pretty nice.

But, can the D2 replace my U3? How is it for listening to music interface-wise -- especially, say, in the car where you can't pull out the stylus and touch some little icon just to change to the next song (all I normally need is play/pause, next and previous tracks. If I can do that much, I'm fine in the car)? For that matter, how's the sound quality? Also, one thing I like about the U3 is that I can carry it in my pocket more or less all of the time. Do I need to worry about cracking the display or anything? I do also often carry a PDA, but I was able to find locally a good holder for it (eg without having to spend some $30 for some French company's custom built thing like I saw for the U3 so long ago.) Is the D2 fairly sturdy? I don't make a habit of dropping things as is shown by the fact that my PDA is still intact, but I do at least want to know in advance if I have to be extra careful with it (in particular, if I need to order a case or not.) Finally, how is it for battery life? My U3 has simply wowed me. Even though I bought it a good while ago, the battery is still holding strong. I probably don't have to charge it even as much as I listen to it very nearly every single day but maybe once every two weeks. By comparison, it drives me crazy how my PDA must be put on the charger nearly every day for those occasions I want to sit down and read for a good number of hours (and needless to say, reading requires less power than, say, playing a game or something...)

Assuming it can replace the U3, I wonder about the rest of its abilities. Besides what looks like overall a nicer interface and design as well as obviously better handling of music videos and such, how would it do with higher end videos? Say I wanted to watch a show with subtitles, would they be readable? Also, is it better at video quality? In particular, the X5 and U3 are annoying in that they require a really low profile encode. With my PDA I'm actually able to get away with QVGA and a decent bitrate (around some 400Kbps video, 128Kbps audio,) but it's extremely inconvenient actually trying to use it for video since I even have to use an adapter to plug in my IEMs (they opted to use a 2.5mm jack out of some sort of hatred towards their customers apparently) and of course obviously a PMP should have a better interface and such I would assume.

Sorry for the twenty questions, but it's looking like a really good player now that I look over it, and I think I'd really love to replace my U3 with it if I at all could.

[Punnisher]

I can answer some of your questions:

1. It supports SDHC. I use an 8gb card in mine.
2. I like the touch interface. You can also use the hold button along with the - m + buttons to change tracks, play/pause.
3. The sound is very detailed and can be customized for pretty much any pair of headphones. Lots of customization here.
4. You won't crack the screen easily. Just like carrying a phone in your pocket. Just don't lean on it.
5. It's pretty solid, but get a silicone case for it. You'll thank yourself down the road.
6. Battery life is fantastic, I probably get 40 hours with 256k mp3 and average volume of 20. Just amazing. I charge mine once a week maybe.
7. The D2's screen is a nice size for videos, but maybe not subtitles. It's comfortable watching TV shows on it.

[Goenitz]

Some facts:

- D2 supports SDHC: In fact, i'm using 4 and 8GB cards right now. And 16GB ones are right around the corner price-wise.

- For car use, you can configure the top volume and menu buttons to act as playpause/next/prev track.

- I havent listened to a U3 so i can't compare it to the D2, but D2 is far superior to iPods and other nameless MP3 players I've listened.

- Pocket use: Some cheap rubber covers are available on eBay... and maybe in some authorized dealers. (mine sells a nice accesory pack that came with 2 rubber covers that keep the screen pretty safe in my empty pocket, i.e without keys or change)

- Battery: I have a 4GB d2 and I've found myself charging it more that it said on the box, but that's manly because I use sd slot (which sucks more power). if you get an 8GB d2, you won't have to worry about that so much.
But in general terms, battery life rocks.

- Video: The D2 can manage up to 2mbps, 30fps I think, but the bad news is that the TV output only works in 320x240. Still, 750kbps vid/128kbps audio will allow you to easily watch a subtitled TV show.

[wader]

I originally thought a U3 was going to be my first DAP after weeks of research.

Then I saw the D2 online, did more research, and went that route.

Now I have two D2s.

For my tastes, it's actually become undesirable to go back and use non-touchscreen players. Not that they are more difficult, just the UI paradigm of directly controlling this little device to utilize the media I desire seems the best way to work. It could be a more efficient interface (i.e., I'd enjoy some user-customizable shortcuts in a permanent, pop-down menu), but it flows naturally for my use. My oldest kid just taps it and hits the overlay buttons or menus without needing to second-guess a controller - using a joystick on TV games has required practice, but the D2 was a fast bond.

The D2 cannot be played while charging via mini USB, however it can be used while charging through the micro USB connector - for which they ship with an AC/DC walwart. I've found a cheap car adapter with a micro USB connector which allows for convenient charging and simultaneous use in the car.

Still, the U3 is a great player in such a small form factor - if I went that route at first, I'd probably have a U3 and D2 by this point.

- wader

[Nazo]

Originally Posted by Punnisher

7. The D2's screen is a nice size for videos, but maybe not subtitles. It's comfortable watching TV shows on it.

Well, my question was more on the order of visual quality. I see that it supports QVGA though? That's all I'm using on my PDA and I am able to read subtitles on it. The important thing is less the size of the display and more

Originally Posted by Goenitz

- D2 supports SDHC: In fact, i'm using 4 and 8GB cards right now. And 16GB ones are right around the corner price-wise.

Nice. I like the idea of future expandability. I see complaints of limitations, but honestly I'm not going to try to put a whole library on there at once or something really...

- For car use, you can configure the top volume and menu buttons to act as playpause/next/prev track.

Thanks. I think that answers one of my biggest questions. I think that would be sufficient. But, also, would it be easy enough to just press on the display with my fingers or something?

- I havent listened to a U3 so i can't compare it to the D2, but D2 is far superior to iPods and other nameless MP3 players I've listened.

Probably good enough then. I'm not an audiophile, but I can hear the difference from my U3, and I don't want to go too far downhill from there now.

- Pocket use: Some cheap rubber covers are available on eBay... and maybe in some authorized dealers. (mine sells a nice accesory pack that came with 2 rubber covers that keep the screen pretty safe in my empty pocket, i.e without keys or change)

Could still be a problem then I guess. The thing I found for the PDA impressed me because it actually has an extra padded cardboard slip that goes in on one side besides just the normal casing. The problem is, it's about the size of a PDA unsurprisingly. I don't mind having one such thing in one pocket, but in the other pocket it needs to at least be a little more reasonable. Sadly, I DO have other things in my pockets, though usually it's more an inconvenience than a scratch hazard as few of them can really damage a screen so long as the screen has even the most basic of protections on it.

- Battery: I have a 4GB d2 and I've found myself charging it more that it said on the box, but that's manly because I use sd slot (which sucks more power). if you get an 8GB d2, you won't have to worry about that so much.
But in general terms, battery life rocks.

The 8GB is out. Maybe the 4GB is close enough, but even that I'm not sure about. I was kind of running with the idea of the 2GB and counting on adding on an SD card later on. I did start to get someone interested in buying my U3, but they pulled out since they decided they wanted a Creative Zen (really the one that's more like the D2 than anything else) and because they didn't trust it to work with Napster (I don't know what "Napster to Go" is, but obviously it works with the normal Napster service at least.) That kind of throws a crimp into my plan there, so it may take a little longer than I thought since originally I was planning on getting it with the assumption that I could sell my old player to cover at least a little bit of the cost... Right now my income is rather less than ideal, so cost is a definite issue for me right now (and this is why I'm looking at something like the D2, and not something like the Q5 or other such higher end PMPs.) Thing is, 2GB has held me pretty well for quite some time, so if I can count on adding on with memory cards later on (and thanks to SDHC support I'm less worried about this) I think I can get by with that if I have to (though with the small price difference between them I may try to get the 4GB model anyway.)

So, anyway, you say you charge more often, but I must ask, how much more often? Do you have to charge it every single day like I have to do to be sure that my PDA is ready should I want to sit down for a long read (and just in general to be certain that I won't have to restore it from a hard reset... I keep frequent backups, but it's still a pain to deal with...)

Originally Posted by wader

Still, the U3 is a great player in such a small form factor - if I went that route at first, I'd probably have a U3 and D2 by this point.

Yes it is -- absolutely amazing features and quality for its price and size. I just can't help but think that it would be absolutely wonderful to be able to enjoy a really nice touch screen interface, watch videos in a more normal profile, and so on. If the D2 can basically do what the U3 does in the most important ways, but do all of that, it would be far better for me I think.


BTW, just one last question on the matter. I'm reading about bugs in certain firmwares and such. How much of a problem is all of this? Right now my U3 practically gives me no troubles whatsoever. About the biggest complaint I've had is that once in a blue moon it locks up or seems to have troubles buffering videos. If the D2 were to take its place, it needs to at least work fairly smoothly. What sort of complaints am I looking at in general that I might have missed in skimming over the firmware forums and such?


PS. I don't care much about video out. It's a really neat feature, but I do have a modded Xbox using XBMC, so I can easily watch videos at far higher quality and profiles than any PMP, but then I don't buy a PMP for such purposes after all. I'm thinking more in terms of watching a ~20 minute show during lunch breaks and that sort of thing. I will be encoding for QVGA though. I do not want it to have to waste efforts resizing the video -- plus I can usually do a better resize myself done properly in the encoder.

[MaxSt]

Originally Posted by Nazo

Assuming it can replace the U3, I wonder about the rest of its abilities. Besides what looks like overall a nicer interface and design as well as obviously better handling of music videos and such, how would it do with higher end videos? Say I wanted to watch a show with subtitles, would they be readable?

Subtitles are readable even on U3 (I posted the example earlier).

So they're certainly readable on D2.

[Nazo]

Originally Posted by MaxSt

Subtitles are readable even on U3 (I posted the example earlier).

So they're certainly readable on D2.

Eh, technically they may be readable on the U3, but not normally so. First of all, I'm into anime, and sadly that means a lot of hardsubs rather than softsubs -- in other words, I can't change the font to accomodate the player, but must use just whatever the show itself uses all too often. (Besides, I hate it when the subs are too large... I usually keep them actually quite small so they cover an absolute minimum of the video.) Second, you have to encode VERY carefully to get them just right if they aren't quite large to begin with. The biggest problem comes right down to the fact that 160x128 just is not enough resolution to fit enough of the data for the pixels not to end up blending far too much to keep all of the letters intact.

BTW, I HAVE tried several cases of my own on my U3, so I'm not just making assumptions here. Some using your encoder for the better compression quality, some using theirs. In the end, there just isn't enough detail in 160x128 no matter how you do it for normal subtitles.

That said, I have watched QVGA videos on my PDA. If the D2 truly is QVGA resolution, and not trying to scale or something, then it will have the clarity I need for anime watching. I know because I have watched entire showse (even whole movies!) on my PDA. I have pretty good eyesight, so I'm not worried about it being too small or anything. I was worried originally that maybe there might not be enough pixels for the definition I needed, but 320x240 will be quite sufficient. But, also, I must admit that when I first asked I was looking at the wrong product descriptions and couldn't find mention of the resolution of the player. Ironically enough, there aren't many that don't mention its QVGA resolution...

EDIT: BTW, quick question to add to my other questions in my previous post. Is there any quick way to switch sound profiles? Ok, this doesn't affect my choice on whether or not to get the player, but I am curious because needless to say, my Sennheiser CX300s require a very different profile from my car stereo system... With my U3 I've had to strike the best balance I could between the two, but it would really be nice to be able to just easily swap between them without having to go through so many menus and such to do so...

EDIT2: Just to give you an idea of the sort of thing I'm talking about, I've uploaded a sample video from a show that was giving me a lot of troubles at the time when I wanted to try to get it watchable on the U3. Included is also the original source and an encode using the profile I usually use for my PDA. As you can see, it's a bit rough, but readable on the PDA encode. Too much blending renders most of the text unreadable on the U3 encode though. (Needless to say, when I used AVISynth or your VirtualDub build to letterbox it so it wouldn't cut the edges off, it got even worse.) This is kind of a worst case scenario, but it should give you an idea of the sort of thing I'm thinking about with the D2. I believe that the D2 will be sufficient if it can at all equal the PDA. Can I encode the video via my own tools, or do I have to use theirs though? I notice a lot of people having troubles trying to build with other tools... Within reason, I suppose I could put up with having to use something else (I'll just use AVISynth for video processing) but it does still need to do a decent job.

Here's the upload:
Original: http://www.sendspace.com/file/tt1453
For U3: http://www.sendspace.com/file/o4jqh0 (Done with your U3Video frontend to mencoder)
For PDA: http://www.sendspace.com/file/j956pc (Done with standard VirtualDub -- nothing special is required because it uses TCMP for playback)
(And yeah, I realize I screwed up the filenames. Oh well.) I'm not too picky. I can live with the PDA encode. In fact, if what I read about the D2 is true, I should be able to far exceed that in quality (especially the sound since 128Kbps MP3 is rather limiting since I must transcode already as it is...) In fact, I intentionally used the op because this particular fansub has a decent sized subtitle font in most of it, but the karaoke text gives you a good idea of the worst cases I'm having to deal with on some shows. At the time I had a far worse fansub than this with much smaller fonts for the normal text though (about like the karaoke texts.)

[MaxSt]

Try my example...

[Nazo]

I've already discussed that and why the problem is far more complex than that would imply... (Remember, I have tested no small number of encodes myself on my own U3 using many different tools, including AVISynth which features a far better shrinking filter.) But, no, nevermind, that's the least of my worries now that I know the D2 should be roughly on par with my PDA as far as resolution goes, but should handle better bitrates (thus allowing me to get more clarity in anyway.) I'm far more interested to know how people feel about the firmwares and that sort of thing. But, on the subject of video encoding, I am rather interested to know just what its limits are there. Specifically, can I just pop my favorite videos into VDub, resize as needed, save with MPEG4 video and MP3 audio (does VBR work?) and it play, or are there specific requirements/spec violations like with the U3?

[MaxSt]

Originally Posted by Nazo

Specifically, can I just pop my favorite videos into VDub, resize as needed, save with MPEG4 video and MP3 audio (does VBR work?) and it play, or are there specific requirements/spec violations like with the U3?

Yes, almost no restrictions. For example, you can get D2-playable files with vixy.net using simple AVI (DivX+MP3) profile.

Lots of other conversion software:
http://www.iaudiophile.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=17397

[Nazo]

Ok, I finally got my D2 and have been playing around a little. It seems that maybe it's a little more complicated than that though. I wanted to be able to just simply encode with VirtualDub, however it won't play the files I produce through that. Earlier I produced one that did work, but it ran extremely slowly despite using a pretty decent bitrate for the video (someone earlier said it can manage up to 2Mbps? I was only using 512Kbps.) I can't figure out what I changed, but now I can't even get it to do that.

I'd really like to be able to use VirtualDub though for this. Any idea what I'm doing wrong?

[artlin26]

im sorry, i was going to come to your rescue, but im too late lol

i will take some pictures of the D2 playing various fansubbed animes and upload them ....as soon as i get around to converting them...... grrr
overall im happy with how the subbs look, although the editor notes and some background translations are illegible in many cases.

although i think since its xmas, anyone on this forum that did not have a D2 now has one lol

happy holidays everyone!

[Nazo]

Ah, you don't have to do that. I've already been playing around with it a bit and have tested some encodes with subtitles. In fact, I tend to make my subs smaller than usual and find that they are still surprisingly readable (currently I'm adding a size 14 font before it gets resized downward. I haven't even had to shift things around so that I can get the subtitles added after the resize rather than before because they remain so clear and readable...) I can get some encodes if I use things such as mencoder or ffmpeg (at least most of the time, I run into occasional problems -- especially with ffmpeg which doesn't seem to like using some of the options specified in some of the threads here.) I just want to be able to use VirtualDub as it's the best tool for the things I do and the most comfortable for me. I really don't want to have to learn a million different syntax commands just to do something simple like stream copy the audio rather than recompress it from lossy to lossy... At the same time, I don't want to have to resort to using some overly simplistic GUI with far too limited options just for the sake of having a GUI. It should be able to do it I think, so I believe that the real question is, why does it not currently work?

PS. Off-topic a little, but I must admit that I'm both impressed and annoyed at the clarity of its display and how readable subs are. Impressed because it's probably every bit as clear as my computer's monitor. Annoyed because my PDA -- which cost far more and should be capable of beating out things like this -- looks far worse (I think it's limited to 16-bit colors even.) I think I'm going to learn to really enjoy using this D2 for anime... I'm not really big on pictures, but I swear I may have to keep some images of some nice scenery on there just to enjoy the clarity of the colors and pixels on this display...