Should we petition for a line-out feature?

[Natedog]

I realize that using a poll might've been a better idea for this thread, but I'd rather get some verbal answers than "Check yes or no." This is just to get an idea of the number of people who would be interested in creating/endorsing a petition to let Cowon know just how badly we want a firmware implementation of a line-level out feature, as well as determine the wording of said potential petition/plea for help.

First of all, I think that it would be great if we could suggest how it is implemented, instead of just saying "Give us line-out, please." For example, a fairly simple solution would be a "Line-out" toggle button placed in the Settings pop-up list in Music mode. Activating this button could do something as simple as set the volume level to 49, bring all EQ levels to -12, and settings all other effects to 0/off, therefore enabling a faux-line-out through the headphone jack. Toggling Line-out to "Off" would just change all your sound settings back to the way they were before you activated it.

There's also the other choice, though I'm not sure this one is even possible with the unit. The TV-out jack functions as a line-out when TV output is enabled. A new firmware could possibly utilize this same TV-out cable to do line-out while in Music mode. The only two issues I can see with this are:

1. You would have to buy the TV-out cable and some RCA couplers or something similar to use line-out this way, or Cowon or a 3rd-party manufacturer could make a cable to be used specifically for line-out (a new cable is unlikely given the player's relative unpopularity).

2. This implementation might not even be possible for hardware reasons. This is pure speculation/Natedog just making things up, but the TV-out jack might be directly wired to a hardware video decoder chip, which might be the reason music line-out wasn't enabled for it in the first place.

The other issue, of course, is how any actual petition would be done. Anyone who has any experience with online petitions or petition websites, this is your time to shine.

If all of that above was more than you really wanted to read, just nod your head and agree with me.

[Cardsin2005]

YES this would be awesome. In my mind i think they could just use the line-in cable and reconfigure the software to use it for a line out as well.

[Captain Ødegård]

I really dont see the point, D2's fake pine out is as good as real line out anyways

[sillyrabbit]

i dont see the functionality here either, isnt 37mW+37mW the same for lineout/headphone jack anyways?

[StanRex]

Btw the EQ has to be set to 0 (not -12) to be "line out like" if I recall properly...

[GVera]

StanRex, I agree with you, eq flat NOT -12 which gives you anything but a flat line out.

Regarding the thread question.
I would surely like a line out if it:

1) is optimized for the standard input impedance of audio components.
2) bypasses the volume control
3) bypasses all DSP (¿make it optional?)

What I mean by bypass is really taking out the electronics from the signal path. That's VERY different to, as an eg., set the volume fixed at 49.

What I don't know is this is possible.
It completely depends on the chips and how they are used.

Did you ever listened to a IMOD?
That's an Ipod modified by Red Wine Audio, they implement a proper line out in the Ipod and the difference with the stock Ipod is huge.

[james.miller]

vol.49, eq flat as as good as any portable dap with a dedicated lineout and BETTER than most of them. you dont need a 'proper' line out.

[dfkt]

I just A/B tested two setups:

• D2 (vol. 49, no EQ/BBE) > Woo Audio 6 (tube headphone amp) > Beyerdynamic DT770
• Winamp/ASIO > Echo Indigo DJ (true line-out) > Woo Audio 6 (tube headphone amp) > Beyerdynamic DT770

The D2 sounds remarkably well, not far behind the Echo Indigo 24/96 card. It was a bit more quiet, about half the perceived volume of what the Echo Indigo is able to deliver.

All other differences are mainly concerning the sources (better bass and soundstage on the Echo Indigo) - but all in all, the D2 sounds very well when feeding the "fake" line-out to a proper amp. Definitely nothing to complain about here.

[Cardsin2005]

It may not be too big of an issue, but it is an easy thing to implement in to the next firmware update then why not. I kinda of like just knowing that it is a LINE-OUT that automatically bypasses the EQ and BBE. The X5 had it why not the D2?

[dfkt]

The X5 does not bypass the EQ and BBE on the line-out... one of the really messed up things, besides the roll-off in the bass frequencies.

And the really weird thing on the X5 is, that the pan/balance setting is actually bypassed - but that is the only thing, besides the volume setting.

The D2's "fake" line-out sounds better than the X5's "pseudo-real" one, just like the X5's headphone-out is actually a better sounding line-out.

[Kammerl]

i would support this petition, when we are suggesting a button to switch between "line-out" and "headphones", summing up all the steps you need to take to turn it into an line-out. this would make it much more handy to use when you get in ur car or else.

[Cardsin2005]

Originally Posted by Kammerl

i would support this petition, when we are suggesting a button to switch between "line-out" and "headphones", summing up all the steps you need to take to turn it into an line-out. this would make it much more handy to use when you get in ur car or else.

Yea that is a cool idea. i can't see a reason why it wouldn't be possible ether.

[Natedog]

Originally Posted by Kammerl

i would support this petition, when we are suggesting a button to switch between "line-out" and "headphones", summing up all the steps you need to take to turn it into an line-out. this would make it much more handy to use when you get in ur car or else.

You hit the nail on the head. It's a convenience (read: lazy) thing. I realize this won't make it any "better" than the current suggested way of getting line-out. It's just a simpler way than going through the menus, switching to a profile you've set up, and then setting the volume at 49, especially if you switch between headphones and line-out often (for connecting to a car stereo, etc.).

Everyone that has mentioned that it should be 0 and not -12 is correct, I have no idea what I was thinking there.

I'm afraid I've picked a pretty bad time to start this thread, though. I'm going to be out of town from now until Wednesday the 6th. Keep up the discussion, and don't be afraid to do anything without me.

[Taustin Powers]

Originally Posted by Natedog

For example, a fairly simple solution would be a "Line-out" toggle button placed in the Settings pop-up list in Music mode. Activating this button could do something as simple as set the volume level to 49, bring all EQ levels to -12, and settings all other effects to 0/off, therefore enabling a faux-line-out through the headphone jack. Toggling Line-out to "Off" would just change all your sound settings back to the way they were before you activated it.

I think that's a winner right there.

It would make things MUCH easier for the user, and it should be fairly easy to implement. COWON, ARE YOU LISTENING? ;-)

[wader]

Originally Posted by Natedog

. . .
I'm afraid I've picked a pretty bad time to start this thread, though. I'm going to be out of town from now until Wednesday the 6th. Keep up the discussion, and don't be afraid to do anything without me.

OK, so let's all put on our monkey suits, prop up a spare Statue of Liberty arm w/torch . . . and act natural when Natedog returns.

I'd like to be an orangutan this time.

- ooofest