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Old 02-24-2007, 16:21   #16
goatherder
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I can't read that, but how was it measured? Was there a headphone load inserted? What volume was used?

As it may be obvious to anyone who thinks for a bit, no-one listens at full volume. So the sensible way to compare players if you are measuring them is to decide a typical listening volume and peg all measurements to that. Similarly if you don't insert a headphone load into the measurements you're simply measuring the spec of the player as a line-out source.
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Old 02-24-2007, 18:54   #17
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Where did you get the idea that the Nano's SQ is poor? It's pretty decent. As is the D2.

Would you like to link to some of those RMAA results?
You mentioned the new nano, and that is supposed to have worse quality then the first gen nano. Most people say the first gen nano has respectable sound quality. So I would think the D2 would sound more like the first gen than current nano. But for me the only other player I have is my cell phone, and the D2 is a lot better than it.
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Old 02-24-2007, 19:16   #18
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I work on the MP3 Player department on a bug electronica warehouse. I had listen to nearly all MP3 player brand we have with good headphones from Bose. iAudio players was far away better than brands like Samsung, Creative, Sandisk and iPod. Some MP3 players that have sound quality that will come close to Cowon iAudio is iRiver, Mpio and Meizu. I don't want to say that iAudio is a better brand than Samsung, but for the audiophiles would iAudio be the best choices. The different is just to big, not only in soundquality.
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Old 02-24-2007, 21:33   #19
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I am currently working on a new review of the D2. What I did was set up 7 players to play the same song. I then had several regular people come along and listen to each one and decide which one they thought sounded the best.
I was shocked at what was the player most people thought sounded the best. No one got to see the players only listen to them so there was no bias on what player they liked. I don't want to give to much away before I publish the results but the one most people picked was not a player we generally talk about being one of the better sounding ones.

It was very interesting. I on the other hand took the same test 3 times and picked what player I was listening to each time for 100% accuracy.
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Old 02-24-2007, 21:41   #20
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Hey hairback please post a link once your reviews done, can you at least name the 7 players without giving too much away?
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Old 02-24-2007, 21:52   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goatherder View Post
Where did you get the idea that the Nano's SQ is poor? It's pretty decent. As is the D2.
Um. No, it's not. I have one in the package waiting to go back to the store. It's muddy, has no punch, and leaves a lot to be desired. I don't know what they do different in their audio sections of the iPods, but they messed things up with the Nano.

I haven't heard the D2 yet, but if it sounds like this nano does, I'm getting out of the DAP world completely.
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Old 02-24-2007, 21:55   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hairback357 View Post
I am currently working on a new review of the D2. What I did was set up 7 players to play the same song. I then had several regular people come along and listen to each one and decide which one they thought sounded the best.
I was shocked at what was the player most people thought sounded the best. No one got to see the players only listen to them so there was no bias on what player they liked. I don't want to give to much away before I publish the results but the one most people picked was not a player we generally talk about being one of the better sounding ones.

It was very interesting. I on the other hand took the same test 3 times and picked what player I was listening to each time for 100% accuracy.
That would be an interesting test...I'd like to read that when you're done. Thanks for your effort, Hairback.

I will agree with Goatherder to an extent, though. I have found that very few people truly want accurate sound. They want bleeding-ears treble, gut-kicking bass, and couldn't care whether it's in the music or not that they get that. The "whoaaa...that hits" factor will mean much more to the passerby in your tests than clean, clear, and tight.

Still a cool article to be.
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Old 02-25-2007, 03:14   #23
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I guess I should know better than to mention anything apart from Cowon here. I draw your attention to the last line of post #6.

And in those tests, I hope you're turning off the Jeteffect and matching volumes using a VU meter before you let any ears near the machines... Otherwise it's completely worthless.

Last edited by goatherder; 02-25-2007 at 04:10..
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Old 02-25-2007, 06:39   #24
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The players I used were as follows:
1st Gen iPod Nano
2nd Gen iPod Nano
Craeative ZVW
Archos av500
ipod 5G
Cowon D2
Creative ZVM

The test was not scientific at all. I was at a poker game, had a bunch of folks handy so I decided to see what would happen. The volumes were set as best they could be by ear. The results were far from useless. I should also mention that this will not be a written review it will be a Podcast review. The link to the site is www.2ndv.com

I hope to have it finished in about a week. I still have a few questions about the D2 I need to figure out. I want to make sure I know the player real well before passing judgement.

I will be adding a blog after the podcast to kinda follow up on some of my thoughts on which player was the most popular and why. If these people knew what player they were listening to up front we all know which one would have won hands down. I did let a lot of people play around with the DAPS and there were a lot of people who commented on how cool the Cowon looked but as soon as they asked what docks, cases can you get and does it work with iTunes the interest was gone.
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Old 02-25-2007, 09:33   #25
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Did you have any EQ or effects on when doing the test on any player? Just interested

In my experience, the D2 sounds quite good using Sennheiser PX100 headphones. The bass doesn't seem as clear or crisp as my X5 and the voices aren't as smoooooth but it certainly isn't bad by any means. I will do a side by side comparison later (I use q6 OGG files on both so it will be a fair comparison) with a variety of songs with both my headphones and dad's Bose Triports just for the hell of it. I might be imagining the differences in sound.

I haven't used many other mp3 players but I do have an old Minidisc lying around so I'll compare it to that as well. Although all the music on the minidisc were recorded through the optical in so it might not be entirely fair! I do have an iRiver iFP-899 but in all fairness it doesn't stand a chance so I'm not even going to try!
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Old 02-25-2007, 10:07   #26
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The eq settings were all my personal settings for all the players. It was just just a spur of the moment kinda thing. I just happened to have all my players in the car because I was testing a pair of Bose headphones my buddy bought. I wanted to see what they sounded like on my players. I had just got the D2 and the sound settings at the time were pretty close to what I finally decided on later. All the other players were pretty much using the stock presets.
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Old 02-25-2007, 11:16   #27
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Thats cool, I tend to think that to compare players properly you should have everything on flat but like you say it was a spur of the moment thing. Will be interesting to hear the results whatever though!

Unfortunately, I don't know many people with recent DAPs so I can't run a similar test and compare results which is unfortunate as all sound testing is subjective. I will look foward to the review!
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Old 02-25-2007, 20:38   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hairback357 View Post
The players I used were as follows:
1st Gen iPod Nano
2nd Gen iPod Nano
Craeative ZVW
Archos av500
ipod 5G
Cowon D2
Creative ZVM

The test was not scientific at all. I was at a poker game, had a bunch of folks handy so I decided to see what would happen. The volumes were set as best they could be by ear. The results were far from useless. I should also mention that this will not be a written review it will be a Podcast review. The link to the site is www.2ndv.com

I hope to have it finished in about a week. I still have a few questions about the D2 I need to figure out. I want to make sure I know the player real well before passing judgement.

I will be adding a blog after the podcast to kinda follow up on some of my thoughts on which player was the most popular and why. If these people knew what player they were listening to up front we all know which one would have won hands down. I did let a lot of people play around with the DAPS and there were a lot of people who commented on how cool the Cowon looked but as soon as they asked what docks, cases can you get and does it work with iTunes the interest was gone.
Hmm, I am familar with the sound signatures of all these players, except the archos. To me out of the headphone jack, the nano 2nd gen and the ipod 5th gen have a nice wide soundstage and richness that the previous ipods lacked. To me the D2 has a very similar sound to the 2nd gen nano, but maybe a little cleaner. If I had to pick one that would be pleasing to the average ear it would be the 5th gen ipod or 2nd gen nano. The zen sounds great but doesn't have the warmth or soundstage of the ipod. The first gen nano was a little cleaner , but the second sounds just a touch more dynamic.

I await the results! I say people either liked the 5th gen ipod or the 2nd gen nano. Just a guess of course
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Old 02-25-2007, 21:00   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hairback357 View Post
I am currently working on a new review of the D2. What I did was set up 7 players to play the same song. I then had several regular people come along and listen to each one and decide which one they thought sounded the best.
I was shocked at what was the player most people thought sounded the best. No one got to see the players only listen to them so there was no bias on what player they liked. I don't want to give to much away before I publish the results but the one most people picked was not a player we generally talk about being one of the better sounding ones.

It was very interesting. I on the other hand took the same test 3 times and picked what player I was listening to each time for 100% accuracy.
Let me guess... Archos won, right?
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Old 02-25-2007, 22:39   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMyungRocks View Post
Hmm, I am familar with the sound signatures of all these players, except the archos. To me out of the headphone jack, the nano 2nd gen and the ipod 5th gen have a nice wide soundstage and richness that the previous ipods lacked. To me the D2 has a very similar sound to the 2nd gen nano, but maybe a little cleaner. If I had to pick one that would be pleasing to the average ear it would be the 5th gen ipod or 2nd gen nano. The zen sounds great but doesn't have the warmth or soundstage of the ipod. The first gen nano was a little cleaner , but the second sounds just a touch more dynamic.

I await the results! I say people either liked the 5th gen ipod or the 2nd gen nano. Just a guess of course
I don't agree that the D2 will have the same quality as the Nano because the D2 has 74mw of power and the Nano has much less power. Actually, I own both the 5G Ipod and 2G Nano and the 5G beats the Nano by a 10,000 miles. I found that the Nano has a very weak and flat sound. Any Cowon player will beat any Ipod in terms of sound quality, for example, my friend's Cowon's Iaudio6 absolutely smokes both of my Ipods soundwise. Imagine, the D2 will fair even better than the Iaudio6 because of the power output advantage of the D2 (74mw vs 60mw).
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