Syncing v. Copying Files

[Mikc]

This is an honest question.
I just don't understand the whole sync thing.
Isn't it just like copying your music files to your player? Or is there something else going besides just copying?

Me, I just copy my folders with MP3s to the X5's MUSIC folder, disconnect and be on my merry way. I don't see what else I could be doing
Anyone care to enlighten me?

[frankmulder]

Synchronizing in this case means that you 'mirror' a given directory structure on the X5. So if you delete something on the X5, and you do a 'sync', it will be deleted on your PC too. If you delete something on your PC (in that directory), it will be deleted on your X5. So yes, it's like copying, but a bit more strict. And it automatically checks which files are new, so you won't have to find out yourself which files to copy to your X5.

[Mikc]

Oh cool!
So all syncing software check directory structures including file timestamps?
Say for example I change ID3 tags. Will that trigger a sync too?
Sounds like a very nice feature anyhow.

[doniago]

If updating the ID3 tags updated the modified date on the file, then yes. I've sometimes suspected that updating tags via MediaMonkey did not update the datestamp.

I prefer sync'ing because I sometimes rip a bunch of CD's at one time and it's a lot easier to basically push a button afterwards to copy everything to my X5 then it is to deal with copying specific (sub-)folders.

[afruff23]

Check the sticky topic for suggestions on syncing software. I prefer allway sync: easy, intuitive, not resource hungry, and provides many options. BEWARE: some syncing software do not sync folder deletes(i.e. Microsoft synctoy), but allway sync does. Allway sync also provides bi-directional syncing if you wish, and you can run it off of your X5.

[Zeus's Uncle]

It depends on what and how you sync. I actually don't "mirror" any folders at this point. I use playlists to generate a list of songs that should be sync'd to the player and the folder structure created on my x5 is determined by Media Monkey database fields rather than the folder structure of my music collection. (I used to use different software to sync that would use the same folder structure instead of using fields to create folders.) MM will check which files currently exist on the player, and if any have been updated or are missing it will synchronize them to the player and I think, though I haven't done it, will delete any songs that aren't in the list to be synchronized. It's a much more complex scenario than just mirroring a directory which wouldn't work for me since my collection is bigger than the x5, and mirroring a folder would mean I'd need about 50 gigs of overhead to do a direct mirror image.

[afruff23]

Oh and allway sync requires no local databasing. All databasing info is in the _syncapp folder, an automatically created folder in the source and destination directories, so you could uninstall allway sync completely and reinstall it and the database info is still there in the source and destination directories. Some other useful things: more than 1-way syncing, so you can sync your music to 2 devices at the same time, optionally propagate modifications and/or deletions, choose where deleted files go(recycle bin, move to specific folder, or shift+delete), advanced inclusion and exclusion filters, and 38 languages.

[Zeus's Uncle]

Originally Posted by afruff23

Oh and allway sync requires no local databasing. All databasing info is in the _syncapp folder, an automatically created folder in the source and destination directories, so you could uninstall allway sync completely and reinstall it and the database info is still there in the source and destination directories.

I don't understand this part? What do you mean by local databasing? Just after you say it doesn't do it, you list that it creates folders in both the source & target locations. Does this mean it clogs the folders in the music collection with it's own database folders and files instead of keeping the database files in a separate location? If, after using allway sync, I decided to drag & drop my music around would I be carrying around these extra folders & files? That seems less than optimal.

Edit: Did you mean the exact opposite of what you wrote? That it requires local databasing? It seems like based on the description you gave it does both local and remote databasing.

[Mikc]

Hmmm, while you two bicker about 'em I think I'll try them out both just to be sure.

[frankmulder]

Originally Posted by Mikc

Hmmm, while you two bicker about 'em I think I'll try them out both just to be sure.

.....

[afruff23]

I mean you could theoretically delete allway sync and your database info is still intact. the info is kept in the root folder in a folder called _syncapp with one .xml file in it, so if you sync a folder with subfolders in it, then only one new folder is created(in the root folder) with the .xml file in it. If you delete mediamonkey, or use another computer with MM on it, then will your syncing info be intact? If I'm not mistaken, MM keeps database info in its install location or somehwere other than the syncing folders. The _syncapp folder is also automatically marked as hidden, so in most cases, you wouldn't copy the folder over with your music.

In allway sync, the first sync between 2 folders takes a little while, but later syncs are much faster, since the syncing folders are mostly analyzed already.

[Zeus's Uncle]

Originally Posted by afruff23

I mean you could theoretically delete allway sync and your database info is still intact. the info is kept in the root folder in a folder called _syncapp with one .xml file in it, so if you sync a folder with subfolders in it, then only one new folder is created(in the root folder) with the .xml file in it. If you delete mediamonkey, or use another computer with MM on it, then will your syncing info be intact? If I'm not mistaken, MM keeps database info in its install location or somehwere other than the syncing folders. The _syncapp folder is also automatically marked as hidden, so in most cases, you wouldn't copy the folder over with your music.

In allway sync, the first sync between 2 folders takes a little while, but later syncs are much faster, since the syncing folders are mostly analyzed already.

Hmm, local databasing is exactly what you are describing. What you described for allway sync sounds like it will indeed litter my music collection with its folders and database files, and will indeed get copied any time I drag & drop a folder. I don't want to sync entire subfolders of my music, often just one or a few songs from a specific location or artist. Allway sync sounds like a nice syncing solution for something other than music, but it also appears that it has a pretty nasty overflow bug that causes it to crash if you are syncing a large number of files (more than I put on my x5, but not more than I'd want to sync if doing system backups).

MM doesn't keep the mdb file in its install directory. Its default location for the database and the default for your settings in My Documents\My Music\MediaMonkey. This is totally configurable though and you can place it anywhere you want. I usually put MM and its database on the same drive as the music, so it will work on every computer I connect to.

[midnite8791]

i think automotic synching is stupid. but then again when i load songs onto my X5 i just pick what bands or albums I feel like listening to in the near future hehe.

I need a 150gb X5 :doh:

[afruff23]

It doesn't litter your fodlers with files. It's in the root of the sync folder within a subfolder. Just try it once and you'll see what I mean. That's what I like about it; the sync info goes with the X5 rather than stay at home with your PC.

[Zeus's Uncle]

Originally Posted by afruff23

It doesn't litter your fodlers with files. It's in the root of the sync folder within a subfolder. Just try it once and you'll see what I mean. That's what I like about it; the sync info goes with the X5 rather than stay at home with your PC.

As a matter of fact, I already have, and it doesn't come close to the synchronization scenario I need for a music player. It's okay for a backup solution assuming you don't want to backup too many files (if you are trying to backup somewhere on the order of hundreds of thousands of files it hits a buffer overflow and crashes). When it comes to synchronizing, it appears that you can only setup the sync to do on a per folder basis, not per file. This means you cannon sync just one file from within a folder. Many people, myself included, have a music collection larger than the capacity of the x5. So we cannot just point it to the root music folder of our collection and the root music folder of the x5. We would have to pick and choose different folders to sync. For example, suppose I wanted all my Classical on there but just Blind Willie Johnson and two Buddy Guy albums from my Blues. The Classical folder would get a _SYNCAPP folder inside of it, Blind Willie Johnson gets a _SYNCAPP inside of it, and both of the Buddy Guy album folders would have a _SYNCAPP inside of it. This is what I mean when it litters my music collection with extra folders. These extra folders exist in both the source and destination locations, so yes, it does local databasing.


I'm still getting used to Media Monkey, which I had never even heard of before it was suggested as a sync solution to me on this board. It lets you build a more specific list of what to synchronize. For people with a small enough collection, this app might be a good solution, just sync the entire music folder. For people who want to choose specific files to sync, allwaysync is not the app, and for people who want to choose specific folders, this app will work, but it will create the _SYNCAPP folder in every album or artist folder you choose.

BTW,

Originally Posted by Zeus's Uncle

MM doesn't keep the mdb file in its install directory. Its default location for the database and the default for your settings in My Documents\My Music\MediaMonkey. This is totally configurable though and you can place it anywhere you want. I usually put MM and its database on the same drive as the music, so it will work on every computer I connect to.

So if you want to take the db with you so you can sync from another computer, it should be possible, though I have not tested it. I just use that setup so I can play my music with all my playlists and the like when I'm logged in under different user contexts or on different machines.