X5/X5L/Vision M/Summat Else

[nomoreheroes]

Feel like I'm setting myself up for abuse here....I started reading iaudiophile and epizenter last week after coming to the conclusion that I wanted to buy a Creative Zen Vision:M (eventhough I want a 60Gb and not 30Gb). This conclusion was based upon reading numerous reviews around t'internet which all said that the Creative was the best model on the market at present. Then I find thread after thread after thread giving me more to consider !!!

Whilst searching on here I find out I have to have all of my stuff properly labeled with ID3 tags and I can't just drag and drop folders with album names from my pc. Up then steps the Cowon X5. I'm impressed to see that it has a 60Gb option and I can play FLAC and OGG files - I only have about 5 or 10 albums in this format but I noted that they sound oh so much better on Jetaudio than mp3 files on the same pc and speakers. So, 60Gb X5 takes the lead !

Hang on a minute, there are threads about the 60Gb being useless as you can only use 30Gb due to file number limits ! Bugger ! So, a 30Gb it has to be ! Oooh ! There is an X5L (not a Firebird XL5 for you older fellas !) that has excellent battery life. An 30Gb X5L it is for me !!

Hang on, this model has been around for over a year. Oh ! The video is a bit crap. Oh, there is a comparison between the X5L and the Vision: M. Oh ! The sound on the X5L isn't that much better than on a Vision: M ! Oh ! X5L people are defecting to the Vision: M side ! I guess its the Creative for me !

Oh ! Creative are probably going to announce a 60Gb model in September. Maybe I should wait? A 60Gb Vision: M it is for me !

Oh dear ! It scratches if you look at it ! Worse than that, Epizenter folks are detailing lots of problems with the Vision: M. Hmmm ? Is it reliable ? Off I toddle to Best Buy to have a look. Guess what ? The showroom model is broken !! Don't want one of these duff things ! A X5l it is for me then !

Oh bugger ! The batteries on these things break down after 3 years or less ! Oh, no !! I'll be back in the UK then ! Can I get the damn things fixed ? Cowon customer service sounds a bit dodgy according to some. Will I have to send it to the USA ? Oh bugger, I don't know !

Normally I can make a decision. With these soddin things though it seems as if the best thing is to wait for an mp3 player that isn't on the market yet.

So, questions:
1. Since the Cowon has been on the market so long is it more reliable than the Vision: M ?

2. Is there a 60Gb mp3 player that doesn't rely on internal batteries ?

3. How long should one bank on keeping an mp3 player for ?

4. I have a Creative 512Mb flashplayer for the gym. Seems quite good. Should I stick with that and just keep changing the albums that are on there ?

5. All this crap about the Vision: M video being better than the Cowon. Really guys, is there much difference or is it only the geeks that notice ?

6. Should I be looking further afield than these two mp3s ? A future proofed high capacity mp3 player than enables me to get rid of all my cds and lets me store pictures and poss video on a round the world trip is what I want.

Sorry guys, I know this must be boring for you, but I'm finding the endless ramblimgs and counter arguments on here all very confusing. I'm not even sure if I have interpreted everything correctly...HEEEELP !

NMH

[u4ik]

1. More durable, at least, in many aspects. It's got an all-aluminum shell, though some users experience problems with their joystick and/or headphone jack after a few months. The Creative's shell is half plastic and scratches easily, but that can be resolved by purchasing a full-face skin for the front of the unit.

2. Probably not. None use AA/AAA cells that I know of. The Creative Zen Xtra was a thick brick of a unit that featured a removeable, replaceable rechargeable battery but the unit itself is difficult to find these days (Creative still sells the battery, though).

3. Depending on budget, anywhere from 1-3 years. With any player with a non-removeable integrated battery cell, the battery will last no longer than 3 years with typical use anyway.

4. Yes. It's more versatile than a hard drive unit as you don't have to worry about any moving parts. Flash-based players like the Zen MuVo/Nano series are ideal for the gym and any strenuous activity while listening.

5. To be honest, yes, there is quite a difference. The Zen Vision:M has the best screen of any Digital Audio Player on the market right now (though it doesn't compare to Portable Media Players like the Cowon A2). Its oversaturation is excellent for movies but not too accurate for photo colors (makes people look overly bright/dark depending on skin tone and isn't accurate color-wise). The Zen Vision:M boasts a much higher resolution (over twice the pixels altogether on its 2.5-inch screen than the X5 on its 1.8-inch screen) and better viewing angle as well. The X5 really doesn't compare screen-wise to the Vision:M, but its screen quality for cartoons is more than passable (it's not too bad watching some Family Guy on it).

6. Maybe the Toshiba Gigabeat S series, but it's reported to have terrible battery life for audio (less than 12 hours).

X5 60GB
+Great capacity (15,000 4MB songs).
+Superb sound quality (ideal for rock and techno).
+Superior distortion-free sound effects (BBS, Mach3Bass).
+Durable.
+Rockbox!
+UMS Drag-And-Drop. Works in all operating systems. Simplest and fastest file transfer by far.
+More/better features (USB-OTG, line-in audio recording [up to 320kbps], et cetera).
Average battery life (~14 hours for audio; I don't know for video).
-Pretty thick and somewhat heavy (comparative).
-Screen isn't too great.
-May look dated (subjective; I think it has a "technologically advanced" type of look).

X5L 30GB
+Decent capacity (7,500 4MB songs).
+Superb sound quality (ideal for rock and techno).
+Superior distortion-free sound effects (BBS, Mach3Bass).
+Durable.
+Excellent battery life (don't expect 35 hours, but many get 25-30 hours of audio; I think I've gotten more than 8 hours for video).
+Rockbox!
+UMS Drag-And-Drop. Works in all operating systems. Simplest and fastest file transfer by far.
+More/better features (USB-OTG, line-in audio recording [up to 320kbps], et cetera).
-Pretty thick and somewhat heavy (comparative).
-Screen isn't too great.
-May look dated (subjective; I think it has a "technologically advanced" type of look).

Zen Vision:M 30GB
+Decent capacity (7,500 4MB songs).
+Superb sound quality (often described as more "neutral" than the X5; not as good for rock/techno but good for other genres such as classical and perhaps pop).
+Versatile equalizer (+-12dB as opposed to only +12dB on the X5).
+Decent battery life (15-16 hours for music; 4 for video).
+Superior screen and GUI for pictures and video.
Less overall features, but has a video-out for output to TV.
-MTP. Only works in Windows XP and MUST use software for file transfer. Not as fast.
-Somewhat thick (Not as thick as the X5L or X5 60GB, but about as thick as the bottom of the former units [subtract the LCD hump, for example, and you get around ZVM dimensions]).
-May look tacky (subjective; I don't like the white back [except when paired with a white face]).

[nomoreheroes]

Thanks for the reply Mr U4IK. Sorry for not replying earlier, but am on my jols. Am inclined to go for the X5L but know that I will kick myself if I buy one without seeing it. May just wait a month to see what else comes on the market. Isn't it time for a X5L replacement/update ?

NMH

[u4ik]

Should have been, but Korean DAP manufacturers aren't so big on hard drive players anymore. The South Korean market is saturated with micro-hard drive and flash player, or full-fledged PMPs like the A2.

I don't imagine we'll see a successor to the X5 for a while.

[nomoreheroes]

One last thing: Can someone explain the 60GB 10000 file limitation ? Does Rockbox (whatever that is) get round it ?

Thanks

NMH

[Zeus's Uncle]

Yes, rockbox has no file limitation, but voids your warranty. The 10,000 file limit is for all the X5's but really only affects users that have the 60 gig version.

[afruff23]

Actually, Zeus, that's not completely true. Rockbox has a 10000 file limit, but it's a bit different from what you think. It can only display 10000 items max. at a time on the screen. If you group stuff by folders, then there' no problems. Tagcache AFAIK can database more than 10000 files, but it can't display more than 10000 items at a time. You can change this limit to anything lower than 10000. This helps free up some RAM.

[nomoreheroes]

I'll have to have a search through the forums to see what Rockbox does and why and how it invalidates the warranty. I assume that it overwrites the operating system and you don't get any software with the player so that you could reinstall if you wanted ?

Mr Afruff23: What is Tagcache AFAIK ? If its documented somewhere on this forums then please point me in the right direction.

Am starting to think that the reasons I rules out the 60Gb X5 (which is what I really wanted to begin with) are starting to disappear.

[Zeus's Uncle]

Rockbox is an open source firmware, you are basically hacking the device to use it a way not intended by the manufacturer. People have been fortunate to receive warranty service after having installed rockbox, but that should in no way be taken as a guarantee that they will grant service to anyone else who has installed rockbox. It is safest to assume that installing rockbox will void your warranty.