Guide for playlists in MSC mode for J3 & S9

[Franki]

This is a guide for every J3/S9 owner out there who wants to make playlists, but doesn’t know how…

1. Download Playlist Creator. Current version is 3.6.2. Site. Direct Download.

2. Install the program.

3. Open the program.

4. Go to settings.

5. Go to ‘Playlist Details’.

6. Choose ‘Absolute (eg. “C:\MyMusic\MySong.mp3”) under ‘Saving playlist entries’.

7. Save settings by choosing ‘OK’.

8. Add Music files. You can do this by folder (Folder icon) or by songs (Music note icon).

Important: Select the music files that are on your J3/S9. NOT the ones in your local music library! Otherwise the playlist will not work!

9. Don’t add more than 399 files! If you exceed this limit, your J3/S9 will crash.

10. Choose your save location (Somewhere on your J3/S9).

11. Choose your playlist name.

12. Select .m3u and NOT .pls!

13. Click ‘Create Playlist’.

You can play the playlist by choosing ‘playlist’ (or translation).

Note: The sequence of the playlist is the same as in the Playlist Creator.

[DSperber]

Sigh....

If only this actually worked. Too bad it always results in "No file" when you actually select the resulting stored playlist using the [Playlists] navigation. IT SIMPLY DOES NOT WORK (at least for me, and many others), and this is obviously a J3 bug.

As to why it works for some and not for others, I can only speculate it's got something to do with the location/structure of the implied artist/album music folders (under \Music, presumably), the contents of ID3 tags (including whether they are ID3v1 or ID3v2 or both), where/how you got your MP3 files and thus what frames are present in the ID3 tags, where you might have stored your M3U playlist files, etc.

Whatever the explanation, M3U playlists (built when in MSC connection mode) simply always return "No file" for me when selected for use, even though the playlist name itself (including the .M3U extension) does show in the [Playlists] list.

Note that there are MYRIAD playlist organizer/utilities and media players that can also be used to create these M3U playlists in MSC mode. Even Cowon's JetAudio program works (as does Winamp).

Note also that some playlist-creators set "absolute track references" (e.g. R:\Music\artist\album\trackname.mp3) while others set "relative track references" (e.g. either \Music\artist\album\trackname.mp3 or ..\Music\artist\album\trackname.mp3). It seems that the "absolute" versions should only be usable by Windows-based player programs while the J3 is still connected in MSC mode so that those drive letters have meaning... at least within Windows and to those player programs. I can't see how "absolute" references could be usable by the J3 itself, unless the software simply ignores those drive letters when it sees them.

In contrast, I would expect that it should be the "relative" reference syntax that really should be the form inside the M3U playlist which the J3 would most likely best understand.

But regardless of any intellectual discussion about "absolute" vs. "relative" or UNICODE vs. ANSI, for some still mysterious reason ALL of these M3U playlists are completely worthless (to me and my self-made Audiograbber/LAME MP3 files and ID3 tags, anyway), as "No file" does not a playlist play. No matter what the form/syntax of the M3U playlist file itself, no matter UNICODE or ANSI, no matter in the root folder of J3's internal storage or in some other sub-folder (e.g. \Playlists, where you'd think they should go)... always "No file" when the M3U playlist is selected for use.

The very same procedure may work great for the S9 (so I've read), but it certainly does NOT work at all for me and my J3. Obviously, the J3 firmware is quite different than that of the S9... and I personally am most suspicious of the new code that supports the microSDHC external storage card as somehow responsible for the "breakage"of previously working playlist technology in the S9.


In contrast, when the J3 is connected in MTP mode and Windows Explorer is used to create PLA playlists, now this actually DOES WORK PERFECTLY. The resulting PLA playlists actually DO PLAY FINE and are shown in [Playlists] as they should (and without the .PLA extension, unlike how .M3U playlists show with the .M3U extension).

Unfortunately, because of a second J3 firmware bug only the "internal storage" of the J3 is shown in MTP mode. The expected "external storage" item is NOT shown!!!

Thus it is not possible when in MTP mode to either (a) copy music files from PC to J3's "external storage", or (b) use Windows Explorer to develop PLA playlists accessing music tracks on that "external storage" card (since it's not visible in Windows Explorer).


===>> Cowon needs to (a) fix the J3 software to make M3U playlists work perfectly in MSC mode, and (b) fix the J3 software to show "external storage" in MTP mode where PLA playlist functionality already actually works fine.

NOTE: if you use MTP mode for playlists, you need to stay there forever. If you revert to MSC mode and then reconnect the J3 to Windows, you will cause those PLA playlist files to become unusable (they seem to get "corrupted" somehow, losing the internal track references). And they no longer appear under [Playlists] (although the PLA files themselves are actually still present where they were before... except they're now "damaged" and thus do not satisfy the J3's boot-time scan for playlists).


Sigh...

[Franki]

It's unfortunately it doesn't work for you, but i got those 'No File' errors either.

But you really have to make sure that you select the songs that actually are on you J3/S9.

So that will be something like: 'G:\Music\House\Swedish House Mafia - One.mp3'.

If you don't do this, it won't work. I have firmware 2.21 and ID3 Tags.

But I have to ask: did you really try this option?

[DSperber]

Originally Posted by Franki

But you really have to make sure that you select the songs that actually are on you J3/S9.

Naturally. The tracks are selected during the playlist creation process from the folders living on the J3 itself, and the playlist is saved on the J3.

Note that these very M3U playlists which get saved on the J3 and which point to folders/tracks on the J3, and which cannot seemingly be used successfully by the J3 itself when disconnected from the Windows PC, ARE 100% perfectly usable by Windows players (e.g. Winamp, JetAudio, Windows Media Player, etc.) when the J3 is still connected to the Windows PC via MSC.

So obviously the playlists are 100% perfect and acceptable (stored on the J3, and referring to J3 folders/tracks) when played from a Windows-based player program. The playlists are used from the J3 and the tracks are read from the J3... as facilitated by MSC mode connection. And it all works perfectly.

It's only when the J3 is then disconnected from the PC and the [Playlists] are actually tried to be used by the "standalone" J3 playing music on its own, that these M3U playlists always result in "No file" (at least for me, and many others who've posted similar results).

So it would appear that all of these M3U playlists (no matter who creates them) are perfectly fine, and SHOULD also be usable by the J3 once disconnected from the PC.

And yet... NOT.

So that will be something like: 'G:\Music\House\Swedish House Mafia - One.mp3'.

Well of course your "G:" reference only has real meaning when the J3 is still connected to Windows in MSC mode, so that that drive letter gets assigned. Whether it's "G:" for you, or "R:" for me, that's not important. What's important is that this drive letter is only meaningful when Windows and Windows-based player/playlist programs need to access the two drives of the J3.

But once disconnected from Windows, that drive letter that may have been stored inside the M3U playlist (if the playlist syntax uses "absolute" reference form) is of no value or significance. In fact, the J3 had better disregard its presence inside the M3U playlist when the playlist is being used... since "G:" means absolutely zero to the J3 when it's disconnected and playing music (and playlists) all by itself.


Note that your folder structure and naming convention appears totally different than my folder structure and naming convention. I wouldn't be surprised if this might be relevant in why playlists defined onto that folder and file naming convention seems to work for you.

In contrast, my organization is quite different. For example, "R:\Eagles, The\Hell Freezes Over\Desperado.mp3".

And I, too, use fully populated MP3 tags (both ID3v1 and ID3v2 are completed with data). And I also have COVER.JPG album art in each album folder (e.g. in R:\Eagles, The\Hell Freezes Over\cover.jpg).

If you don't do this, it won't work. I have firmware 2.21 and ID3 Tags.

I don't understand what you mean by "if you don't do this".

The playlist functionality in any player should be completely independent of the folder/naming organization scheme the user has built. You prefer your music collected by genre folders, whereas I do not. I prefer to browse for [Genre] if I want to, based on the ID3 tag "genre" value. You prefer to have your tracks structured as "artist - track.mp3" whereas I just use "track.mp3".

Shouldn't matter. This is not a rocket science problem, and should not work or not work based on folder structure. The M3U playlists (both absolute and relative) point to the track's location... PERIOD! The playlist software should read that reference (either absolute or relative) and locate the track correctly... PERIOD.

And it simply DOES NOT WORK on the J3 (for reasons still unknown), although apparently it DOES work for some people but not for others. In contrast, it seems that playlist functionality DOES work reliably on the S9... and I'm guessing it's completely independent of whatever folder/file structure or naming conventions the S9 users have implemented.

===> The J3 is clearly broken at the current v2.21 firmware (which I also run in my J3), and will hopefully be fixed by Cowon in some future firmware upgrade.

But I have to ask: did you really try this option?

Again, I'm sorry but I don't follow what you are asking.

I have spent about two full weeks now trying to get playlist functionality working. I've tried at least five different player/playlist/MP3-organizer programs while the J3 is connected in MSC mode, and while all of them produce M3U playlists (of either relative or absolute track reference syntax) that are directly and successfully usable by Windows-based player programs, NONE of those M3U playlist files produces anything other than "No file" when the J3 itself tries to play them.

In contrast, when the J3 is connected in MTP mode, I have had 100% success both building/maintaining PLA playlists, which are usable by the J3 and retained as long as the J3 remains in MTP mode and is not reverted to MSC mode. Actually, even when the J3 is reverted to MSC mode those PLA playlists are STILL retained and remain usable. It is only if the J3 is actually reconnected to the Windows machine while in MSC mode that the previously usable PLA playlist files get damaged and become unusable, requiring that you delete and rebuild them if you want to have them.

So as long as you remain in MTP mode forever, you can utilize PLA playlists (rather than M3U playlists, which cannot be used in MTP mode).

Unfortunately, because of the second J3 firmware bug, MTP mode only presents "internal storage", thus losing the external card capability for both music file copying as well as PLA playlist creation for tracks on the external card.


===>> These two bugs are obviously just that... J3 firmware bugs. Once they both are fixed we will finally have BOTH playlist technologies available and 100% reliable... (a) PLA in MTP mode for both "internal storage" and "external storage", as well as (b) M3U in MSC mode for both Windows-assigned drive letters.

[Franki]

I don't understand what you mean by "if you don't do this".

I meant: "But you really have to make sure that you select the songs that actually are on you J3/S9."

I know the G:\ can be any letter, but it was just an example. And i also know that if you try to play it on your J3, the letter isn't important anymore (a.k.a. it probably changes into c:\)

Again, I'm sorry but I don't follow what you are asking

I am asking, did you really follow my guide? I don't want to implicate that I'm an more advanced user than you are, but my guide works for me, so you should try it with this program.

I know there aren't any rational arguments for it, but just try...

[DSperber]

Originally Posted by Franki

I meant: "But you really have to make sure that you select the songs that actually are on you J3/S9."

Of course. It only makes sense that we're building M3U playlists that are supposed to be playable when the J3 is disconnected from the PC, and obviously the source MP3 files are expected to be located on either the internal or external storage of the J3.

So... create playlist, point to desired tracks on the J3, save the playlist on the J3.

I agree fully.

I know the G:\ can be any letter, but it was just an example. And i also know that if you try to play it on your J3, the letter isn't important anymore (a.k.a. it probably changes into c:\)

Again, I understand. In your case that connection via USB (in MSC mode) gets drive letter G assigned by Windows for you J3 internal storage. For me, it happens to be R. But it's really of no importance when the J3 is disconnected from the PC.

Actually, I believe the "relative" reference notation is probably the most understandable M3U syntax... e.g. \Music\Eagles, The\Hell Freezes Over\Desperado.mp3.

In other words, by totally leaving out the drive letter at the front of the fully-qualified path/file name, the operating system assumed "currently assigned drive from where the playlist is being accessed" is implied, either internal storage or external storage of the J3 wherever the playlist was saved and is now being used. This is the obvious advantage of a "relative" syntax, so that the very same M3U playlist file can be stored on any drive (including local PC hard drive, or either internal or external storage of the J3) and can be copied to another location and still be 100% usable without any edit or changes whatsoever (assuming that the drive containing the M3U playlist also contains \Music which contains the tracks referenced inside that M3U playlist).

If "absolute" reference is used, then the J3 programmers would have had to disregard any drive letter seen in the playlist (since it's meaningless when the J3 is not connected to the PC) and just assume "relative" reference for the rest. In my opinion, if Cowon wanted to 100% truly and fully support ALL M3U syntax formats (both relative and absolute) no matter what folder structure the user had built on the J3 and no matter what program the user had utilized to build the M3U playlist, then they truly would have had to build in this awareness of an absolute drive letter being optionally present and ignore it if so.

In my opinion, the current 2.21 software in the J3 is obviously NOT immune to all of these variables which make one user's music collection and folder structure and file names different from another user's, and that's the whole problem here! Only when they fix their obvious design weakness (or bug) will playlist support on the J3 have what is reported to be the level of usability as on the S9.

I am asking, did you really follow my guide? I don't want to implicate that I'm an more advanced user than you are, but my guide works for me, so you should try it with this program.

Theoretically, yes.

In fact, during my previous two weeks of struggles I even used Playlist Creator (because you were not the first J3 user that mentioned it as part of the "secret recipe for success depends on using Playlist Creator"). In fact, there's nothing really different about the M3U playlist built by Playlist Creator than the M3U playlist built by JetAudio, Winamp, ShufflePlay/2, MP3-Explorer, etc.

All of these M3U playlist files are essentially identical... and all should work equally successfully... except that NONE of them work for me! But apparently they do work for you. Simply inexplicable, how to account for this difference... namely that Playlist Creator builds an M3U playlist for your music collection that works for you, but Playlist Creator does not build an M3U playlist that works for my collection.

I await the Cowon solution, as it's obviously their problem.

[crodz]

http://www.anythingbutipod.com/forum...t=56586&page=2

Sup

It does seem like a bug if this did not work for you.
I share the same firmware like all of you and this does work for me. Makes my life easier than using that MP3Tag program

[Playlist Creator]
#EXTM3U
#EXTINF:270,Flores de Alquiler - 4 - Algo Más
Music\La 5ª Estación - Algo Más.mp3
#EXTINF:315,La Revancha del Tango - 1 - Queremos Paz
Music\Gotan Project\La Revancha del Tango\01 - Queremos Paz.mp3

This is the same path that MP3tag creates.

I would guess the reason we three are not on 3.10 is because of the dreaded album art bug.
i dont have 2.21 but i have 2.10 and this does work

I do agree that Cowon needs to fix this ASAP.

However, how bout if you upgrade and downgrade?
if it deletes your files, then i wouldnt suggest so but if it doesnt, i am sure it wouldnt be a hassle.

[DAPmagic]

But, it didn't work for me. (And the songs are on my J3, not my computer.)

I'm using fw 2.21.

[DSperber]

Originally Posted by DAPmagic

But, it didn't work for me. (And the songs are on my J3, not my computer.)

I'm using fw 2.21.

Did you delete any previously created/saved M3U playlists first? Then re-boot the J3 to "purge" the cache and prepare it for what's to come next?

Then connect the J3 to the PC (you can still have the microSDHC card inserted at this point, or you can remove it). Then use tools like Winamp or Playlist Creator or JetAudio to point to music files on the J3's internal storage drive letter (presumably stored under \Music on the J3), and save the playlists into \Playlists on the J3's internal drive.

Then "safely remove hardware" to eject the J3, then be sure the microSDHC card is removed now (if it wasn't already removed).

Then power on the J3. If all is well it should detect all of your newly created M3U playlists and analyze them, caching the results. If you then tap on the "Music" icon and navigate back to the main browsing list and tap [Playlists], your newly created playlists should each show up there but without the ".M3U" extension. If you tap any of those playlists it should open correctly and show all of the internal tracks references, ready for playing.

Once this state is reached, you can power off the J3 and reinsert the microSDHC card, and then power on the J3. You should still have the playlists showing as they did before, and they should still be usable.


This is not what your experience is?

Exactly which step doesn't match my story? Where do your results differ?

Are you seeing the playlists with the ".M3U" extension (such that tapping them gives you "No file")?

[DAPmagic]

Thanks for your instructions, DSperber. I followed them precisely, but I still get "No file" when I navigate to Playlists.

In the past I've been able to make a single playlist in MTP mode, but I would love to make multiple playlist in MSC mode.

One day.

[DSperber]

Originally Posted by DAPmagic

Thanks for your instructions, DSperber. I followed them precisely, but I still get "No file" when I navigate to Playlists.

Still want to try and help out here...

Your music is stored under \Music, and your playlists are stored under \Playlists, and [for the sake of simplicity] you have removed the microSDHC card to keep it out of the story for the time being, not to mention because it's part of the "recipe".

What program are you using to create the playlists?

What format are your music files in that are named inside the M3U playlists... MP3, WAV, etc.?

Can you please post one of these non-working playlists, which results in "No file"?

What firmware level is on your J3?

Are you "navigating to playlists" coming through "Browser" icon on the main J3 screen and navigating down to the \Playlists folder on the J3's internal storage, or are you coming through the "Music" icon on the main J3 screen and then navigating back up to the ID3 index and selecting the [Playlists] item?

When you see [Playlists] (hopefully in the ID3 index method) and select it, do your playlists show with the ".M3U" extension visible (which is a bad sign)... or is the .M3U extension suppressed (which is a good sign)?

[JMC Creative]

Franki: What about smart playlists? Is there any hope for that?

[Franki]

Nah, don't think so. Playlist's are, unfortunately, not Cowon's 1st priority.

It's a shame, but the J3 still is a very good player. I only find it disappointing that there isn't a really good PMP solution.

A cross-over between the J3 and the Ipod Touch, with only the pro's of both PMP's (good SQ, EQ (BBE), support for many formats, good games/apps, Wifi...), would be perfect, but AFAIK there isn't such a player. M

aybe the Viliv P3 comes close to it, but I don't know that for sure.

[Franki]

Again, I have confirmed this on my J3. Come in using [Folders] to \Playlists, and you'll see nothing. Come in using [Playlists], and you'll have success. At least that's how it works for me, so I'm speculating you're using [Folders]... hence "No file" there.

Conformed.

[DAPmagic]

DSperber I followed your previous instructions:

Did you delete any previously created/saved M3U playlists first? Then re-boot the J3 to "purge" the cache and prepare it for what's to come next?

Then connect the J3 to the PC (you can still have the microSDHC card inserted at this point, or you can remove it). Then use tools like Winamp or Playlist Creator or JetAudio to point to music files on the J3's internal storage drive letter (presumably stored under \Music on the J3), and save the playlists into \Playlists on the J3's internal drive.

Then "safely remove hardware" to eject the J3, then be sure the microSDHC card is removed now (if it wasn't already removed).

Then power on the J3. If all is well it should detect all of your newly created M3U playlists and analyze them, caching the results. If you then tap on the "Music" icon and navigate back to the main browsing list and tap [Playlists], your newly created playlists should each show up there but without the ".M3U" extension. If you tap any of those playlists it should open correctly and show all of the internal tracks references, ready for playing.

Once this state is reached, you can power off the J3 and reinsert the microSDHC card, and then power on the J3. You should still have the playlists showing as they did before, and they should still be usable.

Then I navigated via "Library" NOT "Folder" and guess what?
It worked! I did a "test" playlist with just three mp3 files, but it showed up without the .m3u file extension.

I tried making two playlists, but only one works.

But, thanks for your help and persistence.