View Full Version : iAudio X5 60gb v Ipod Video 60gb
I feel ashamed. I'm actually considering buying an Ipod video 60gb.
I currently own a X5L 30gb and I love it. But I need more space. If the X5L 60gb existed then I wouldn't hesitate to buy it. Unfortunately it doesn't.
That means whatever 60gb player I buy, I'm going to be back down to a 12-14 hour battery.
What do you think? I'm torn between the two.
frankmulder
05-03-2006, 12:50
Depends on what your requirements are.
Do you want to be cool (if you have an iPod you are considered 'cool')?
Do you mind using a special program to transfer your files (not UMS like the X5)?
Do you want a device that won't scratch without using a case (the iPod scratches horribly)?
Do you use it mainly for music or also for pictures/videos (the iPod's screen is way better)
Is some of your music in another format than mp3?
Do you ever use the recording capabilities of your X5?
Etc... See http://www.iaudiophile.net/content.php?content.36 for a complete list. ;)
Zephyron
05-03-2006, 13:33
Depends actually, if you want hassle free portability, EQability and BBE Effects/Rockbox with long battery life, the X5 is for you, but if you don't use EQ, but plan to amp, then the iPod Video (With Rockbox ONLY) would be a good choice, but only with a good amp.
It also depends on if you want to be able to find your music. I had to RMA my X5 recently and was using my wife's ipod while I waited to get it back. I really can't stand not having bookmarks, and the database sort really doesn't work all that well. I like knowing where everything is because I put it there.
Zephyron
05-03-2006, 20:38
True. I too like arranging my stuffs in a certain order, hence I also prefer file-tree browsing as opposed to the ID3 tagged browsing. Not a fan of the iPod wheel even though its faster than the iAudio joystick, but I don't like touch sensitive items in the first place (a bit skeptical on the iAudio 6's touch strip).
HiMDforMe
05-03-2006, 21:25
with Rockbox on the ipod it'll function similarly to the X5 on Rockbox, so that improves it a lot - it'll be UMS, file browsing, EQ, etc. I'm not too big a fan of touch sensitive controls either, but i think the click wheel is the best of those. they need an ipod-L to make it really tempting for me...and make it metal like the X5 :)
Zeus's Uncle
05-03-2006, 22:33
with Rockbox on the ipod it'll function similarly to the X5 on Rockbox, so that improves it a lot - it'll be UMS, file browsing, EQ, etc. I'm not too big a fan of touch sensitive controls either, but i think the click wheel is the best of those. they need an ipod-L to make it really tempting for me...and make it metal like the X5 :)
I have a friend, that for some reason like ipod linux better than rockbox, but yeah, same thing. The ipod always was UMS (you could use it as a portable hard drive) but you couldn't sync music that was playable on the device via UMS, so this is definitely an added bonus.
In a way, the 60 gig version is the L version of the ipod. Its battery is larger than the 30 gig version.
afruff23
05-03-2006, 22:39
Also, the iPod 60 gig's battery rates higher than 20 hours when individuals tested it.
dimatrod
05-04-2006, 19:40
Also, the iPod 60 gig's battery rates higher than 20 hours when individuals tested it.
When I got that player from a friend of mine to install Rockbox on it, I "kept" it for Friday and the weekend and I let it play audio in the stereo at 1/4 volume for as long as it could go and it lasted 15 hours for me. It was 2 weeks old also, so it isn't battery wear.
Even with the big screen and clickwheel, stock iPod isn't my thing. After I installed Rockbox, I considered, went around with it, and really didn't like it more than I love my X5. Now that X5 has dual boot, I can play games, take it everywhere like a prostitute and always be able to transfer files, and then normal boot and watch videos. I also don't have to worry about scratches and someday eventually having the HD dying with the X5.
I'd say get the X5 60gb, but if you want the bigger screen and clickwheel, and a mm thinner device, go for the iPod.
afruff23
05-04-2006, 20:13
Rockbox uses more battery than the stock firmware...
To be honest if I was buying a player today it'd be an iPod 60gig. The main reason for me is the size, its just so much smaller and Cowons lack of good updates has also bothered me. The iPod does have some build issues but I would use a case, exactly like I do now with the X5L.
The one thing I would seriously miss would be the battery life but I think I could manage.
I originally got the X5 due to my library being in wma and the battery and the iPod 4th gen at the time wasnt that appealing. Lately thats changed, my library has now been painfully converted to mp3 1 cd at a time and the new iPods are smaller than ever.
Saying that the X5 has served me well and I'm sure it would you too.
Also tags isnt an issue. I'm very particular about tagging my music so if I went down the artist > album >track path I would have the exact same struccture as I do now on the X5. I prefer ID3 databases though since as long as your tags are done right i think everythings easier to find and it allows for more options (browse by album, browse by artist, browse by music type ect)
I may consider the Nomaz Zen:M if it had a higher capacity but I've almost hit 30gigs on my X5 so I'd want more.
... and Cowons lack of good updates has also bothered me.
I don't understand that argument. The X5 can do so much more than the iPod, it's the iPod that would need some serious updates to reach the X5's potential! (FM, record, EQ, BBE, FLAC, OGG, UMS, Folder navigation, ...)
I don't understand that argument. The X5 can do so much more than the iPod, it's the iPod that would need some serious updates to reach the X5's potential! (FM, record, EQ, BBE, FLAC, OGG, UMS, Folder navigation, ...)
I dont use any of that bar folder navigation but the one feature I actually want is the ID3 tag database that was originally promised and then kind of put to the side. I personally see no use for a folder navigation as if you have your files tagged with the artist and album name you can then browse artist > album>track which im sure 95% of people use. The people that will have issues are those that dont tag files right or use one of the more odd structures such as a,b,c...z > artist > album > track. I'd rather loose those features you listed if it meant a player that was half the size.
that and their inability to deliver a fully functioning DRM firmware (it works for some people but many people such as me have been left in the lurch). This subsequently meant ID3 never got done.
As a note I dont use DRM, but the fact cowon couldnt get it working in over a year seems to me to be a big issue. They said it was probably an issue with the USB host controller which while meaning it wasnt an issue with their firmware does indicate they have issues with the hardware or didnt foreplan it enough to include hardware capable of doing what they needed.
Like I said in another part of the forum I have actually noticed that under some circumstances if you plug in the usb cable into the usbhost port while they are on you can notice the tiniest of static sparks. To me this seems awefully suss as it shouldnt be happening. Besides that the players build is fantastic, very sturdy, but it is still something I noticed. Also I never liked the joystick. It works fine but it can get a lil caught up inside a pocket and any mechanical parts in any device is succeptable to failure and as with video game controllers some people here have reported the joystick has come loose. It's not a deal killer but I would be weary of playing to much doom useing rockbox on an X5.
Anyway despite that I do think its a good player and I dont use usbhost either so that spark issue doesnt hurt but it makes me wonder about DRM.
I also personally feel both Cowon and Apple have pretty dodgy support so neither has that as a strong point. Apple have been known to delete topics asing questions about design flaws from their forums and cowon seem to take an age to respond to emails. I've experienced that 1st hand and some of them never got a reply.
Anyway back to my initial post. I still stand by both products are good products but for their own reasons .When I bought my X5 it was the ideal player "for me" but now I think an ipod would suit me. That may not be the case for you so you need to do a list of your needs and see which one is best.
Lastly understand this is all oppinion based from what I want and use. The usbhost problem seems to be one only I've mentioned, I havent heard anyone else getting these sparks (although the DRM issue is a common one). Basically the above is what I think and go for and if you disagree thats totally cool.
Zeus's Uncle
05-06-2006, 13:10
I dont use any of that bar folder navigation but the one feature I actually want is the ID3 tag database that was originally promised and then kind of put to the side.
Except that id3 browsing wasn't ever promised. When you bought your player, it was said that folder browsing is how you'd find your music. Never on Cowon's website or in any press release did they every promise it, despite the many claims that they did.
Lastly understand this is all oppinion based from what I want and use.
Oh, okay, I thought you were saying they really did promise it. But yes, some people are under the impression of have the opinion that it was promised due to a couple forum posts by one individual that they were working on it. Far from a promise by company that it would happen.
None of the above posts compared sound quality.
There is one post mentioned you better listen to ipod without adjusting the equalizer. Okay, at this preset, what should sound better, ipod 5g video or iaudio X5?
Have you tried both?
Regarding BBE, I think it creates an "artifical sound" especially in the vocals! Is it just me who feels that?!!
I am about to buy HDD player, and I am after the best sound quality unamped.
Some guys on head-fi.org tested the X5 vs. the 5g (I'm too lazy, you might search the forum there for yourself...)
Summary: without equalisation both sound the same... with EQ/enhancements the iPod is toast, compared to the X5.
unamped, uneqed with out adding enhancements (bbe etc) the concensus seems to be that the X5 and the 5G ipod sound very similar, but ipod sill has trouble with distortion when effects are added, The X5s on the other hand are flawless
dfkt , you beat me to it.
dfkt,
Now, I am between X5 and Kenwood HD30GA9.
The Kenwood player costs $500 shipped from Japan. There aren't many English reviews about it. However, at head-fi.org the couple who bought it seem to like it.
What is your opinion? I need someone to help me make a deicision! Does it worth the extra money?
I am a poor student but I am willing to chill out the extra cash for better music experience.
I thought about buying the X5 and spend the money in a better headphone. But I will leave this as my last option. Since I have tried several headphones and I guess getting a "good device" first is more important... only then I should start looking for a matching headphone. May be I am wrong :nutty:
NOTE: I will only be using the device unamped.
IMO headphones are at least as important as the player... the old "crap-in-crap-out" rule applies to all parts of the audio-chain. ;)
I don't have much love for Kenwood - it will always be a kitchen-appliance manufacturer to me. Oh, and their player supports "Kenwood Lossless (http://www.kenwood.com/j/products/home_audio/personal/hd30ga9/index.html)" - ROFL!
Important factors for me to know in the Kenwood would be: Does it support UMS? What is the output mW? What is the SNR ratio? Does it support folder browsing, and not only ID3 browsing? Does it have line-in/FM recording? How's the battery? Etc, etc... And last, but not least, I think the Kenwood is extremely ugly. But that's all just my opinion, so yours may vary a lot! ;)
Kenwood supports both UMS and UMP like in iAudio U3;
you can search by Artist, Album, Genre, and Folder browsing.
Their output mW is 6mW×6mW (16 ohms)
However, they claim to have a "NEW digital amplifier." I tried to understand what mW output means. But I never reached a conclusion. Some says it leads to higher volumes and others say better ability to drive headphones.
If this is true, then what does the amp do?!!
Battery life: 24 hours.
They support WMA DRM protected (but it is not an issue for me)
I don't know about their SNR, but again... iriver H320 and iAudio X5 have lower SNR than creative's SNR 98 impressive value and many says no difference in sound quality.
I guess it is a matter of how things put together not just numbers, if you understand what I am trying to say:blah:
Kenwood players doesn't have radio, voice recorder or video playback or any extra feautre (like ipod). I really like Radio and voice recorder, but it is not my main goal.
Edit:
dfkt,
I also believe that headphones are important as the player itself. But sometimes the player is warm or bright sounding or lack of bass... in this case, isn't it better to buy the headphone to compensate that after purchasing the player?
The specs don't sound too bad, all in all. However:
Their output mW is 6mW×6mW (16 ohms)
12mW is bad. It wouldn't drive any better quality headphones nicely. Meaning: lacking bass, lacking resolution. The output wattage not only means quantity of volume, but also quality in sound perception (and higher SNR ratio, usually). The X5 has 20mW, which is better, and the U3 has incredible 60mW. Meaning, you could (nearly) drive Sennheiser HD650 with the U3.
I also believe that headphones are important as the player itself. But sometimes the player is warm or bright sounding or lack of bass... in this case, isn't it better to buy the headphone to compensate that after purchasing the player? I would address the players' shortcomings with EQing, not with my choice of headphones. Good headphones sound good, each company has their signature sound (I heard about people even liking the Grado's sound, heh ;)). I don't think one can/should really 'match' a headphone to cure a players fault.
A good set of headphones one usually has longer than an audio player which is obsolete in a year or two... I'm sure good phones would sound good on your next player, still. :)
12mW is bad. It wouldn't drive any better quality headphones nicely. Meaning: lacking bass, lacking resolution. The output wattage not only means quantity of volume, but also quality in sound perception (and higher SNR ratio, usually). The X5 has 20mW, which is better, and the U3 has incredible 60mW. Meaning, you could (nearly) drive Sennheiser HD650 with the U3.
Thanks for your explanation. Really appreciate your replies :).
But then what is the amp's job? I think it is somehow adjusts the frequency and is able to drive headphones like Sennheiser HD650. Ofcourse, not all amps have the same power or efficiency, but isn't this the main reason of having an amp?
If yes, Kenwood claims to have (for the first time in a mp3 player) a digital amp, will this compensate the low output wattage of 12 mW of their player vs. the 60 mW of iAudio U3?
Lol, the 'digital amp' sounds like an invention by Kenwood's marketing department. If the X5 doesn't have a 'digital amp', then what? http://www.rockbox.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/IaudioX5HardwareComponents#TI_TLV320AIC23B_Audio_C odec_with
;)
If the amp delivers 12mW to the phone-out, then it's still 12mW - and they're analog... listening to 1's and 0's would be quite fatigueing to the ear...
you know.. me too was thinking it is a gimmick and all DAPs have digial amp. but why all the posts stress on the quality of kenwood because of its digital amp.
check this link
http://www.dapreview.net/comment.php?comment.news.2642
I am not good at understanding technical specification. They always try to trick you in something!!
From the review: "making it sound like angels peeing gently across your eardrums." LOL
Obviously it should sound very good then, 'digital amp' or not. Give it a go, then - eagerly awaiting your review! :)
Seems to be the right thing for purists, who wouldn't touch an EQ or a bass enhancer. I'm not one of those people - but maybe the Kenwood has some good EQ, too (as stated by one person's comment)? I like some music with my bass, not the other way round. :p
One of the comments in the DAPreview article link to a longer review of the Kenwood: http://dapreview.net/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?21800
Except that id3 browsing wasn't ever promised. When you bought your player, it was said that folder browsing is how you'd find your music. Never on Cowon's website or in any press release did they every promise it, despite the many claims that they did. I'm still pretty certain at one point iAudio god did indicate it was going to come several months after ID3, it wasnt an official announcement but he seems to indicate it was comming. Unfortunatly I could never relocate the topic let alone the post in it but I'm dead set certain he said it in the initial topic about the Firmware that supported DRM. Whereever that topic is now I dont know or really care. I dont think I and others imagined him saying it but.
As for sound quality, yeah iAudio is better and one of the best although I duno how noticable it actually is as long as you dont use stock phones. Will differ from person to person.
lolos,
FWIW, I'm going to stick my $0.02 in here.
First, does the search for the "perfect" DAP have ever come to a successful conclusion, or is it simply the path to extreme frustration or disappointment? Secondly, how much improvement in SQ is the extra $200 for the Kenwood actually going to buy, especially for a "poor student". Third, what is your primary listening environment? If than environment is mobile (outdoors, commute, car, etc), are you really going to be able to appreciate the supposed improvement in SQ? Finally, what are your expectations vis-a-vis the life expectancy of your near-perfect DAP? Remember, is it a piece of modern, portable electronics, not a car or high-end home stereo; something better and cheaper is always just around the corner.
My 5 month old 30GB X5L is my first DAP. I bought it over an iPod, after an extensive search, for the following reasons: abundant positive reviews for performance and SQ, superb internal battery life, generous codec support (I use vorbis q6, my 11,500 track arcive is FLAC), FM radio, voice recording, UMS support. Video and line-in/FM recording are meaningless features for me -- it's just about the music. I also want to be able to use a subscription music service to explore new music so DRM support was important ... assuming Cowon can ever deliver a working implementation!?!?
Rockbox will make the X5L a near-perfect DAP for me by adding ID3 browsing, gapless playback and replaygain support, especially with dual-boot capability. I have already tested gapless playback and replaygain and the combination is just TOO SWEET! I will probably buy/build a dedicated line-out adapter to eliminate the SQ issues introduced by the subpack/cradle so I can use the player as input to the home stereo. The X5's GUI is terribly cheesy, but H3Mod and Tim's CleanBlue skin eliminated that issue for me.
I know you say you don't want to use a portable amp, but a lot of head-fi'ers seem to think that any portable device sounds much better with high-quality cans fed an amplified line-out source, especially in a fixed (desktop) listening environment. If an amp is really out of the question, use the extra $200 for a pair of high-end IEMs.
"Perfection is unattainable" ... so how much additional value will an extra $200 buy, if you are not someone for whom price is completely irrelevant?
I guess this was more than $0.02 worth :bigsmile: .
I guess this was more than $0.02 worth :bigsmile: .
No indeed. Your $0.02 actually costs $200 saving to me:coolio:
You made it so simple to decide. THANK YOU SO MUCH!
I was so close almost there to sell my U3 and buy the Kenwood player. Now, I don't even have a doubt that I am better off NOT to buy the Kenwood player even of its potential SQ.
Regarding the optical in/output in X5, it made me thinking of buying the iriver H120 which has an optical lineout built-in.
I will just go and read some reviews about it and will let you know how it turned out. The good news is, I will probably keep my U3 :D
Thanks again to everyone :)
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