View Full Version : X5, ID3, and larger repercussions...
I've just heard it from iAudio_God that plans to support ID3 browsing on the X5 may have been abandoned...though ID3 browsing isn't integral to my enjoyment of the player, I think if the X5 ends up not supporting ID3 browsing my opinion of Cowon will be damaged. Just wondering how other people feel about this?
gr........ it's been such a long wait and they decide to abandon it? :(
i'll probably never buy cowon again... their best player (X5) doesn't have the promised support behind it...
gr......their best player (X5) doesn't have the promised support behind it...
I feel kind of ashamed to own a X5 since all this useless beta-firmware-stuff. If COWON won't show up with a fully functional X5-successor at 2006 CeBIT the last excusable explanation for all this firmware-delay will be gone. Then I'll be sure they just abandoned the X5 more or less.
My assumption from last week maybe an explanation for this beta-conspiracy:
Trust me - COWON's X5-dapartment surely concentrated on the X5-successor so they can unveil a fully functional device at CeBIT in two weeks.
Come on, otherwise it would make no sense at all that they neglect their most important device firmware-wise for sooooo long. Now with the release of the U3-id3-firmware it gets even more frustrating.
However, if COWON won't unveil anything new and X5-like at CeBIT I'll be really dissapointed.
I would be a shame.
Still hoping *fingers crossed*
Well, as i have said before, they really don't have to release another update - they have never posted such things officially on their website. However, they should at least sort out DRM. So long on a beta is getting quite ridiculous now. If the Rockbox port does get finished, then i'll deffinitely be switching to that.
I'm still wondering where CNet originally got its information that the X5 would ultimately support ID3 browsing via a firmware upgrade, because I _know_ that the lack of it right out of the box was a concern for me.
Well, as i have said before, they really don't have to release another update - they have never posted such things officially on their website.
There is much more to customer relations than what is posted officially on one's website. Thats why companies are very careful as to what they release to the media or public about upcoming products. They don't want to end up in the situation that Cowon has landed themselves in in which you have promised (officially or not, it really doesn't matter) more than you can deliver.
afruff23
03-02-2006, 17:39
If they just add ID3 database to the 2.08 firmware, then I will be content as there is no DRM on that.
If they just add ID3 database to the 2.08 firmware, then I will be content as there is no DRM on that.
Cowon has already stated they will not support an ID3 database on the x5.
And you do know that just because the firmware supports DRM doesn't mean you have to use it, right?
Do you have a source for them saying they _definitely_ won't support ID3 databasing? The strongest source I had was iaudio_god, who I think said they _might_ abandon it.
Do you have a source for them saying they _definitely_ won't support ID3 databasing? The strongest source I had was iaudio_god, who I think said they _might_ abandon it.
Generally speaking, companies are not going to go public regarding a decision if it is still in the "might" phase. Of course then again, it does seem Cowon's public relations has made this mistake in the past...
You know I think it really stinks that Cowon hasn't released a firmware update for so long. The biggest draw for me was that Cowon cared about it's customers enough to frequently (or at least relatively frequently) update it's firmware. These are some basic things that shouldn't be that hard to implement - and I'm a s/w guy! I mean who makes a player without proper DRM or ID3?? Online music is a key driver for purchasing toys like this! I've been so proud of my player, but getting quite disappointed...
COWON may not care about it's X5 users, and those without an X5 may be excited that they are getting all the firmware they want, but guess what? Just like we were "ditched" guess what? When the next version is out, the other users will be ditched too. Guess what else? People that buy iaudios do a lot of research on forums such as this (as opposed to an iPod sheep), and they'll certainly pick up on these things.
COWON folks!!!!! You have a loyal following...that seems to be dwindling...you are not so strong in the market that you'll have our undying loyalty forever...PAY ATTENTION TO YOUR CUSTOMERS... that way when we look for another version of player, we won't make it a point to NEVER consider iaudio again.
Geesh, why is this such a hard message to hear?
And loyal followers that may flame me, please...ask and ye shall receive??
IMO they are working on new stuff.. and kinda busy so of course we wont see much in the way of new firmware because they are working on new playes..
^In regards to that, it's nice that they're working on new players...but without ID3 browsing support for my X5 I won't be purchasing any of them. My X5 does everything I need in a DAP anyway, and I'm frankly not impressed by Cowon's support at this point, so why endorse them by buying another Cowon product?
You know I think it really stinks that Cowon hasn't released a firmware update for so long. The biggest draw for me was that Cowon cared about it's customers enough to frequently (or at least relatively frequently) update it's firmware. These are some basic things that shouldn't be that hard to implement - and I'm a s/w guy! I mean who makes a player without proper DRM or ID3?? Online music is a key driver for purchasing toys like this! I've been so proud of my player, but getting quite disappointed...
COWON may not care about it's X5 users, and those without an X5 may be excited that they are getting all the firmware they want, but guess what? Just like we were "ditched" guess what? When the next version is out, the other users will be ditched too. Guess what else? People that buy iaudios do a lot of research on forums such as this (as opposed to an iPod sheep), and they'll certainly pick up on these things.
COWON folks!!!!! You have a loyal following...that seems to be dwindling...you are not so strong in the market that you'll have our undying loyalty forever...PAY ATTENTION TO YOUR CUSTOMERS... that way when we look for another version of player, we won't make it a point to NEVER consider iaudio again.
Geesh, why is this such a hard message to hear?
And loyal followers that may flame me, please...ask and ye shall receive??
I feel EXACTLY the same way. I am extremely disappointed in Cowon and have already decided that I will no longer purchase any future products from them. I'd been looking forward to the X5 successor, but their treatment of their X5 customer base speaks volumes towards whether their future products will be worth the investment.
I'm generally happy with my X5L, but hate that there likely won't be any future firmware. That was a MAJOR factor in my purchase, and in addition to that I feel deceived for thinking there'd be an ID3 firmware when it's now pretty likely there will never be one. Right now I'm really wishing I'd waited and gotten the Vision M. At least Creative looks to have their act together, certainly much more so than Cowon.
Since nobody's piped up about this in awhile-
I'll say Cowon should be taking the hint when almost 30% of people voting in the poll say that they'll avoid buying future Cowon products if they never release ID3 databasing for the X5.
Yes, Rockbox does offer it, but Rockbox isn't a Cowon-supported firmware, and one could argue that it's only luck that Rockbox is covering Cowon's behind. Also, as a large number of my tracks are currently in WMA format (we can table the format discussion for later, thanks) Rockbox still doesn't do me much good at this point. Besides, I want _official_ firmware with ID3 databasing.
I really don't see myself buying another Cowon product if they don't, even well past the point when they should have, offer ID3 databasing for the X5. And the fact that I may be able to get it through Rockbox won't affect my decision, because Cowon isn't responsible for Rockbox.
Hear, hear. I love my x5 for what it is...but bad customer service for an old product means bad Customer service for any other product. You NEVER leave your old customers behind. Esp. because most of us are here because we don't follow "fad' players. No players final firmware release should be a beta.
Rockbox is all very fine, doesn't address COWONs shortfalls.
COWON, you suck. And be sure I'll let everyone know.
afruff23
09-09-2006, 12:43
There are final firmware releases for the X5...2.07, 2.10 final-k, 2.10 final-e, and 2.10 final. The last 3 are exactly the same though.
A beta is good, because you can get to the features much quicker than waiting for Cowon to release a final firmware.
EDIT:Perhaps you'd like to tell us what the shortfalls are tigger(Winnie the Pooh fan?). Rockbox addresses several shortfalls: ID3 database, games, better OTF playlist, better equalizer,etc.
There are final firmware releases for the X5...2.07, 2.10 final-k, 2.10 final-e, and 2.10 final. The last 3 are exactly the same though.
A beta is good, because you can get to the features much quicker than waiting for Cowon to release a final firmware.
EDIT:Perhaps you'd like to tell us what the shortfalls are tigger(Winnie the Pooh fan?). Rockbox addresses several shortfalls: ID3 database, games, better OTF playlist, better equalizer,etc.
Afruff,
It's very simple: battery life. I know that RB has improved but it is not as good as the OF. Those of us who paid for the X5L (assume tigger is one) want battery life.
afruff23
09-09-2006, 23:33
Umm... battery life has been reported very close to OF battery life with newer CVS builds(which include the USB_OTG_OFF patch). It might be the same or even hgiher, since these tests are not with "brand-new" X5's, so there batteries ahve already degraded a bit.
I am familiar with the latest cvs build. However, I haven't heard or seen any real proof on the battery life being close. Seems RB guys have more reported battery "issues" than anyone else...
theundead
09-11-2006, 01:06
As far as I'm concerned, I don't want ID3 browsing on my player.
For me - as a basic FW 2.10 doesn't need any support changes except for maybe .cue files.
Nevertheless, IMHO, they should release a FW version with OPTIONAL ID3 browsing for the users interested in this function.
Just thought I'd chime in here -- I'm very happy with my X5L right now. I love Rockbox and use my player constantly - I carry it around with me everywhere. However, I'm NOT at all happy with Cowon as a company. The lack of continued X5 support killed my loyalty to them, and just in principle I'll refuse to buy another product from them in the future. I'm in agreement with doniago and tigger that although Rockbox fulfills the needs that weren't met by Cowon (and to me, the X5 is as close to the perfect DAP you can get right now), the fact is that Cowon had nothing to do with that. I'll certainly be buying another DAP within the next year, but I'm sure it won't be a Cowon product.
I don't imagine my next DAP will be a Cowon product unless it's highly-rated at the time. I won't go iPod, but I'll look elsewhere before I look to Cowon, especially if the features I want are "promised".
I wouldn't have picked up an A2 either, except that it appeared to be the best PMP available at the time.
However, while it was months ago, Cowon's customer support failed to impress me, and the continued lack of ID3 browsing support in official firmware is a mark against them, especially when iaudio_god had said they were working on it back in the day. If the U3 has it, they could damn well have figured out a way to put it on the X5.
Apparently the Golden Age of customer support is long-gone- that being when I needed to return my Palm due to a screen defect and they sent me a new/refurbished one _before_ I returned mine. _That_ impressed the hell out of me. They may have even sent it overnight.
I don't imagine my next DAP will be a Cowon product unless it's highly-rated at the time. I won't go iPod, but I'll look elsewhere before I look to Cowon, especially if the features I want are "promised".
I wouldn't have picked up an A2 either, except that it appeared to be the best PMP available at the time.
However, while it was months ago, Cowon's customer support failed to impress me, and the continued lack of ID3 browsing support in official firmware is a mark against them, especially when iaudio_god had said they were working on it back in the day. If the U3 has it, they could damn well have figured out a way to put it on the X5.
Apparently the Golden Age of customer support is long-gone- that being when I needed to return my Palm due to a screen defect and they sent me a new/refurbished one _before_ I returned mine. _That_ impressed the hell out of me. They may have even sent it overnight.
Man, and you're an iaudiophile mod? Someone hasn't been drinking from the Kool-Aid....[biggrin]
Perhaps if someone spiked the Kool-Aid I'd be more inclined to drink it.
I can't say I agree with most of the posts in this thread. I personally think that Cowon has great support for X5 owners. How many other companies have released as many firmware upgrades for their players as Cowon have for the X5?
I would never buy a product based on something that CNET says might be implimented in the future - I buy a product based on what it does, and what the specs are.
To say that you'll never buy another Cowon product again because they didn't add another feature to your 2-year-old player is pretty ridiculous really - how many updates do you see for a 2 year old iPod? And yes, iPod can sort by ID3.. but that's because it's totally controlled by iTunes.
In my opinion, the processor in the X5 probably can't handle sorting it all properly anyway - and short of making us all use software to transfer our music (sigh.. I love drag and drop!) I can't see them doing it.
To me, you're much better to say, "my x5 is great but I wish it had id3 browsing", and get the new model when it comes out... now if the new model doesn't have id3 browsing, then I'll join you all in the Cowon Slamming ;)
For now though, I'm pretty happy with my Cowon players.. they're standing strong on their UMS players - finally a company who isn't so scared about copyright and actually gives their users a bit of flexibility.
So thanks Cowon, I'll keep buying your products!
I think if you peruse the threads here you'll see most users who've had issues haven't exactly found Cowon's support to be "great", myself included. In any event, there's more to great support than lots of firmware updates, and even those haven't happened in a long time now.
For the record, there used to be someone here who worked for Cowon and _also_ claimed ID3 support was in the pipeline. Coincidentally(?) he disappeared shortly after announcing that there probably wouldn't be ID3 support for the X5.
As the poll results indicate, few people have said they'd never buy another Cowon product. Since there _was_ a strong rumor via official (or as close as we can get) channels, I don't see anything wrong with bearing that in mind before buying another Cowon product which may come equipped with similarly strong promises of features to come. I acknowledge you should buy a product for what it has, not what it supposedly will have.
For the record, the poll was posted in Febuary of this year, at which point the X5 was less than a year old. I don't know where you're getting the 2-year figure from.
iPod can sort by ID3 because it's controlled by iTunes? What's the U3's excuse? What's the excuse for iRiver or Rio products? And since some of those came out _before_ the X5 it's facetious to claim that processing power is a factor.
I say "My X5 is alright, but I wish it had ID 3 browsing _and they shouldn't have claimed via channels that appeared reliable that it WOULD have ID3 browsing_."
Zeus's Uncle
09-21-2006, 01:05
it's facetious to claim that processing power is a factor.
Not mention that if you hack the firmware on your device with the open source firmware called Rockbox, the player can browse by ID3 tags (I believe as I have not yet installed RB myself).
mhelliwell
09-24-2006, 23:03
I don't really know why you are implying that iaudio-god cheated us, doniago. Perhaps he just doesn't want to deal with the Cowon-slamming, hm? I don't know, but I think he came here on his own accord (Cowon didn't instate him) and he said several times that he *thought or he *overheard that they were working on ID3 Browsing. I doubt that Cowon told him to spread lies, then leave.
________
Justin bieber fan (http://justinbieberfan.info/)
Excuse me? I did NOT insinuate that he cheated us.
"For the record, there used to be someone here who worked for Cowon and _also_ claimed ID3 support was in the pipeline. Coincidentally(?) he disappeared shortly after announcing that there probably wouldn't be ID3 support for the X5."
Where exactly is the misrepresentation here?
mhelliwell
09-25-2006, 18:52
Looking back I realized just how I rude I actually was to you. I really don't mean any disrespect. I realize there were much better ways of saying what I said. I, too, am wondering where iaudio_god is, as I was not around for his glory days (as you can see I joined in July). My comments were unnecessary. Anywho, back on topic, I had known when I bought the X5 that chances are there's gonna be no ID3 browsing. I'm new to the X5, but as it is, I'm quite happy with Cowon and hopefully I'll get the A3 one day.
________
Upskirt black (http://www.fucktube.com/categories/1109/black/videos/1)
Thank you for saying that.
These days I don't think anyone thinks ID3 browsing will be relased for the X5 (maybe not even the A2) anytime soon, but months ago when iaudio_god was here feeding us rumors with varying degrees of credibility and Cnet was claiming that there'd be ID3 browsing included in a firmware release, it was a very different story. If I'd known that it wasn't going to happen (or worse, that it wasn't going to happen after it had been strongly suggested that it would) I might have reconsidered purchasing the X5 to begin with. Which isn't to say I'm not happy with it, just that I find the principle of the matter a bit disturbing.
afruff23
09-25-2006, 19:55
The A2 doesn't even have m3u playlist support. Pigs'll fly before the A2 or the X5 have ID3 browsing support from Cowon.
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