Attention all from Cowon America

[Iaudio_God]

Dear All,

Well this is our current situation at the moment, we are extremely busy. As you know we are trying to push out alot of new products. But the time is very near to seeing some great updates and improvements.

From what I know the lead developer for the U3 firmware is actually at the Las Vegas CES convention. When he returns he will release the new firmware in hopefully about 1-2 weeks when he is back in korea. I have actually seen the firmware in its alpha stages and it will include ID3 support and DRM 9-10 support.

The iaudio 6 will be released in January or early february, which will have Janus support right out the box. From now on all players that are released in america will have janus support right out the box.

The iaudio x5 firmware is currently being worked on and so a firmware beta 8 will be released soon to aid in the drm support.

Again we apologize for the delays, it is real busy this season due to all the new projects. Im sure once everything starts to calm we will be able to utilize our manpower to develop more efficiently.


Regards,
iaudio_god

[Martinp]

Brilliant - absolutally brilliant. Thanks for the update iAudio-God! Just keep the option of choosing between file/folder and id3 otherwise you might piss a few people off ;-)

[Iaudio_God]

Brilliant - absolutally brilliant. Thanks for the update iAudio-God! Just keep the option of choosing between file/folder and id3 otherwise you might piss a few people off ;-)

Yes there will be an option for the the U3 to choose from id3 or file-tree, i have witnessed this myself.

[Martinp]

I love you iAudio_God ;-)

Nah, seriously - I am straight. But I think it is awesome that Cowon finally has got the big picture. Next up on the list: Gapless?

[MardiGras Dave]

From what I know the lead developer for the U3 firmware is actually at the Las Vegas CES convention. When he returns he will release the new firmware in hopefully about 1-2 weeks when he is back in korea.

WOW!

That wasn't so hard was it?
Just for everybody to know... 1 to 2 weeks in business talk... means 3 to 4 weeks... I will be surprised if its out before February First. But at least we know it coming!

Thank You, Thank You, Thank You For Finally Communicating with Us!

I'll Shut Up Now!

[rhymesgalore]

Sorry to break up the chearing, but another BETA for the x5? damn, this is the eight one, this drm-crap (crap cause i don't need it ;) ) takes forever, and the really important things (at least for me), like gapless, faster response time, better OggVorbis support (shows the wrong timecode now), not to mention the id3-browsing will probably never be done.
Generally i appreciate that iaudio_god is there to give us some news, but just think how long this firmware for the x5 is already in the pipeline. Several months! it was first promissed for august last year. and there's been no major change - beside the better usb-otg support - in all of the betas, that affect the pure music playing part of the x5. So iaudio_god, what will come after this? will some of the things i mentioned before ever be done? slowly i just get tired of waiting..............

[rhymesgalore]

A question about the iaudio 6: Will it support id3-browsing out of the box? I don't even dare to ask about gapless....................

[Iaudio_God]

A question about the iaudio 6: Will it support id3-browsing out of the box? I don't even dare to ask about gapless....................

Well thats what they tell me. so yes.

[Iaudio_God]

Sorry to break up the chearing, but another BETA for the x5? damn, this is the eight one, this drm-crap (crap cause i don't need it ;) ) takes forever, and the really important things (at least for me), like gapless, faster response time, better OggVorbis support (shows the wrong timecode now), not to mention the id3-browsing will probably never be done.
Generally i appreciate that iaudio_god is there to give us some news, but just think how long this firmware for the x5 is already in the pipeline. Several months! it was first promissed for august last year. and there's been no major change - beside the better usb-otg support - in all of the betas, that affect the pure music playing part of the x5. So iaudio_god, what will come after this? will some of the things i mentioned before ever be done? slowly i just get tired of waiting..............

I understand that it has taken forever, but i guess abandoning it isnt as great either. So just wanted to let you guys know that there not messing around, they are working hard its just the results are not always perfect, therefore beta...beta..beta...

[rhymesgalore]

Well thats what they tell me. so yes.
But i guess this yes is just for id3-browsing and not gapless, right?


So i guess that the question, if further improvement will be made - the other things i mentioned above - , and if so, when this will happen, would be pure speculation, cause they're completely fed up with their current work on the 2.10-firmware?
And about gapless playback: i know it has been never anounced, but do we have a chance to see it on the x5?

[Kam3]

Are DAP manufacturers even considering gapless? I mean there is a major demand (as far as online communities are concerned) to get this feature implemented into the top DAPs, even the people who don't actively cry out for it wouldn't mind having it. Cowon would surely get a boost in sales if gapless was implemented into their players, and be at a major advantage over the other companies.

[spiralOut]

Awesome news on ID3 navigation and Janus support - these features will make Cowon players the no-brainer choice for almost every kind of DAP purchaser.

Also, thank you so much for keeping the community generally informed of Cowon's plans and progress - even the smallest amounts of information can prove very useful when making purchasing decisions.

[Martinp]

Awesome news on ID3 navigation and Janus support - these features will make Cowon players the no-brainer choice for almost every kind of DAP purchaser.

I totally agree with that statement. I couldn't have put it better myself. Given the quality of Cowon products, the feature set and *finally* id3 and Janus ... Cowon will rule supreme!

I wonder what they are going to say on Cnet about the iAudio 6 when comparing it to the iPod Nano. I just can't wait for the bad excuses they will have to give it a lower score!

[diver]

iAudio God,

Are DRM 9-10 and Janus the same thing?

Do you know if DRM if planned for the i5 and/or the G3 as well, or just U3 and onward?

[bigbabydaddy1968]

Wow. Do you people even have this >.< much of a clue how lucky you are!?! An actual and fer realsies Cowon rep is an active and responsive poster who has obviously been reading recent posts, DTFR, and given you some guidance as to what's in the pipleline. At MisticRiver, we would defacate wolverines if an iRiver rep even acted like he/she/it/WTFE were concerned with what the users wanted. To quote myself (and this is good-naturedly aimed only at those to whom it applies ;)): KWITCHERBITCHIN!!!!

OK, I realize this DRM compliance is all well-n-good for a lot of DAP users, but DRM is complete and total... erm... what is the word... oh yeah: crap. It's yet another way for the corporate big-brother to exert control over content use. I realize DRM is a reality and it won't ever go away, but I'd at least like to raise my objection in the form of an interpretive dance I have entitled, "The Double One-Fingered Wave."

Thank you...thank you.....

BTW, thanks to IAG for your efforts. But 1 FW request that would make an old man happy...? Mmmmmmmmmm-GAPLESS!!!!!!!

BBD

[vinnie97]

totally. Piss on DRM...where's the gapless? ;)

Thanks for keeping us abreast of the info, Iaudiogod.

[Martinp]

well, to be honest a lot of "power users" - this is what I am going to call you guys - don't want DRM. BUT, Cowon have to implement it to be compatible against Apple. If they finally get DRM right, then they for one will get support from Microsoft (you will be able to find the iAudio series on their Plays for Sure website) and they will recieve better reviews.

In total they will then sell more units, which will then hopefully result in more firmware programmers being employed. Which means better firmware for us, faster!

[BronxMontana]

Well Said....

[vinnie97]

Well, I don't care if it's there either way since I don't tend to utilize it (I'd just rather they focus on improved functionality and playback basics) ...but you raise some good points, Exity.

[The_Bunninator]

We don't tolerate language like this on our boards.

eXity

[Rianu]

it would also be nice if you could save your otg-playlists, not having to compose them on the pc ...
anyway, it's good to hear that there's some progress, no matter how small =)

[bigbabydaddy1968]

We don't tolerate language like this on our boards.

eXity
Quality work, exity! ROFL! I'm just sorry I missed the usual creative conjugation....

Back OT, is there a list of desired features that could be realistically added via FW? Might help IAG a bit to have a single thread that compiles such a list--perhaps a poll? Users voting for things like gapless, saving OTG playlists, and did I mention mmmmmmmmm-gapless!?! Pretty please, IAG? I'll even sing out the praises of DRM--in public--on video---

BBD

[Martinp]

Realistically seen: We have already had 100 threads on what should be added and we came up with what is most important:
- Id3
- DRM WMA
- Gapless
- Better playlist functionality (and later on advanced stuff like the Rio DJ)

That about sums it up really. If iAudio players had these features they would be perfect for nearly everyone.

[bigbabydaddy1968]

TY, eXity, and I agree completely.

IAG...? I realize adding FW features is labor-intensive and difficult, but do we have a shot...?

BBD

[Martinp]

I mean seriously - once we have all that stuff the rest is peanuts really. Especially once you actually have a code base of something or other it is easier to port it to another player. Much better than starting from scratch.

Except gapless I suppose. That is probably very processor dependant. But the other stuff :p

[diver]

Audible compatibility :bigthumbs

[The_Bunninator]

My post was basically about how my player has been in limbo for a month.

Sent it in once the issues weren't resolved.

Sent it back and have yet to recieve any information on the status.

[wsw@math.jhu.edu]

I'm happy to hear that Cowon is alive and well and will start to function again in a month or so. It is one thing to be waiting for an upgrade of the firmware, but my on/off (play/stop) button on my 2GB G3 stopped working and I desparately need a repair but no one answers the phones or the tech email. I need an RMA so I can send this in and get it fixed. I love this little thing but it is dead for the indefinite future because Cowon is understaffed and can't answer phones or emails. I have a cheapo temporary replacement and although it works it makes me appreciate my G3 all the more. I'd buy a better replacement for now but my minimum requirements are an FM radio and an AA battery. Such a combination is hard to find. I'm scared to try to buy Cowon for a temp replacement if they can't answer the phone or emails. I'm still under warranty but it just doesn't do any good if you can't contact the company. Sorry I sound disgruntled but I'm only that way because I don't have my G3 up and running. I've been a happy camper for 8 months now.

[turbonegro]

Realistically seen: We have already had 100 threads on what should be added and we came up with what is most important:
- Id3
- DRM WMA
- Gapless
- Better playlist functionality (and later on advanced stuff like the Rio DJ)

That about sums it up really. If iAudio players had these features they would be perfect for nearly everyone.
Hi all - new guy here.

Besides the quoted items, I woulde really REALLY like the 10.000 file limit to be raised considerably, on the 60GB X5 that limit can easily be achieved!

[noethew]

for me as the owner of a x5 60GB the 10'000 files limit must be eliminated as I have now exactly 9748 files and still 15 mb to go to fill it up :eek:

Regards
Werner

[Martinp]

I read that sentence three times. It makes no sense.

You have another 252 files to go and only 15 MB? Uhhh, so why does the limit need to go.

But yes, in genereal I agree with you. Having a 10 000 file limit on a 60 Gig player is a bad idea.

[Andars]

So will the iAudio X5 have id3 tag support anytime soon? I'm not really complaining, just more or less curious, I think both structures can be nice.

[Rjs37]

I have actually seen the firmware in its alpha stages and it will include ID3 support and DRM 9-10 support.

Is there any word on if/when these two things may become available for the A2? Or if they're on a list on things to be added?

[Enoch]

OK, I realize this DRM compliance is all well-n-good for a lot of DAP users, but DRM is complete and total... erm... what is the word... oh yeah: crap. It's yet another way for the corporate big-brother to exert control over content use. I realize DRM is a reality and it won't ever go away, but I'd at least like to raise my objection in the form of an interpretive dance I have entitled, "The Double One-Fingered Wave."

Thank you...thank you.....

BTW, thanks to IAG for your efforts. But 1 FW request that would make an old man happy...? Mmmmmmmmmm-GAPLESS!!!!!!!

BBD
DRM is alive today soley because of illegal downloaders. So if anyone bitchin' has ever downloaded a copyrighted song without permission, you need to STFU.

[Enoch]

well, to be honest a lot of "power users" - this is what I am going to call you guys - don't want DRM. BUT, Cowon have to implement it to be compatible against Apple. If they finally get DRM right, then they for one will get support from Microsoft (you will be able to find the iAudio series on their Plays for Sure website) and they will recieve better reviews.

In total they will then sell more units, which will then hopefully result in more firmware programmers being employed. Which means better firmware for us, faster!
Excellent point.

[afruff23]

I don't get it. Is ID3 browsing only planned to be in the firmware update for the U3 and not the X5(L)? If it is, then come on man! There are way more X5 users than U3 users.

[obijohn]

DRM is alive today soley because of illegal downloaders. So if anyone bitchin' has ever downloaded a copyrighted song without permission, you need to STFU.

This is the most misinformed statement I have ever read. DVDs were designed to be encrypted *years* before p2p existed. Look it up. MacroVision was used on VHS tapes 15 years ago. DRM exists not because of p2p but because of the desire to control the media you "own" by the RIAA et al; solely because of their greed. PERIOD. END OF STORY.

DRM exists because the RIAA doesn't want me to think I truly own the media I purchased. And the motivation is clear: if they can somehow get me to buy 2 copies of a song so I can listen to it from 2 different media devices, then they've doubled their profit. But how can they accomplish this seemingly idiotic buying decision? With DRM. What they need to do is to convince people that they really don't own the media, and the way to do this is with DRM.

Let's see: I can read the book I own anywhere I want, but I can only watch the DVD I own on a player that they say I can use (forget doing it legally on Linux, because THEY say I can't). I can legally photocopy a chapter of the book I own and keep a copy of that chapter at work and another copy at home, but I can't do that with a chapter from the DVD I own. And simply TELLING me how to copy it is illegal. So much for the First Ammendment.

The potential profits are so huge (if someone likes a song enough to buy 1 copy, they will surely buy more copies if we tell them they have to!!), enormous amounts of money are being spent to reinforce the idea that you don't own what you buy.

They sell me a CD that installs a rootkit on my computer without telling me, physically invading and changing and damaging my property, just to keep me from copying a single song from that CD which I "own" and listening to it on another computer which I also own. But this is okay with you?

God Bless the RIAA.

[dfkt]

Thank you for your excellent post, obijohn. If more people were this informed about the DRM issue, those harebrained schemes from the RIAA/MPAA wouldn't stand a chance.

Many people (like me) probably bought Cowon products because they are free of all that junk like iTunes, PlayForSure and the necessity to use some useless software to transfer audiofiles to the MP3-player.

[Rjs37]

If you don't want to get music legally then that's your choice but there's no need to complain about a company making their mp3 player compatible with DRM. Making it compatible doesnt mean your normal mp3 files won't work. It pleases the many people that actually get music legally. It doesnt affect you gusy one bit if they make it compatible with DRM. Don't use it for all I care.

But the fact is alot of people want/use DRM Music (inc myself). and about the post talking about owning music. So you're saying that if people weren't downloading music that they'd still have introduced these DRM methods in the first place? Fat chance.

[dfkt]

Rjs37, some people prefer to buy real CDs instead of prefabricated compressed audio. Not only because of obtaining a real paper cover with liner-notes and whatnot, but those people tend to think they are able to compress their audio better (and with less complications, eg. regarding future players and formats) than those online stores. Those people are not pirates, but obviously don't like DRM.

[Robertshaw]

Many people (like me) probably bought Cowon products because they are free of all that junk like iTunes, PlayForSure and the necessity to use some useless software to transfer audiofiles to the MP3-player.
So you would buy a VCR that didn't work with Macrovision tapes, a DVD player that would only play non-CSS non-Macrovision movies? If that were Cowon's philosophy, I'm afraid they wouldn't be in business long.

Just be glad that Apple didn't get the monopoly it would like...even if you hate MS, at least they open it up to other companies (like Cowon) to produce players that will work with their DRM. Apple would just hog the whole thing for itself, and you'd buy an ipod or nothing for DRM files. And they'd probably raise the price even higher, and of course you have to send it in to them for even a battery replacement. Fortunately for us, Apple's not the only player, so we can tell them where to put their DRM-protected files.

I think most people want to be able to choose what they play, instead of having the limitations of their player do that for them. You don't have to like DRM to want to check an audiobook out of the library for free, but your player has to be functional with protected wma files to do that, at least without a lot of hassle.

So given a player that will play both normal and DRM files, or one that will only play non-DRM files, both with equal other features and price, what do you think people will choose? Not a tough question. Cowon needs to be sure their players work with DRM, fully and completely.

[notguilty]

Forcing DRM, or active circumvention of DRM, is bad. See Apple, Sony, etc.

Enabling the use of DRM content as an additional feature is fine.

<- one of those crazy people who likes CDs, and can even do music management from BASH (it's a PITA, but I had to try, because it was there!).

[Rjs37]

Rjs37, some people prefer to buy real CDs instead of prefabricated compressed audio. Not only because of obtaining a real paper cover with liner-notes and whatnot, but those people tend to think they are able to compress their audio better (and with less complications, eg. regarding future players and formats) than those online stores. Those people are not pirates, but obviously don't like DRM.

You'd be surprised how alot of music coming out nowadays on CD format are now copy protected too. (I believ e they let you copy a couple of times then that's it) Does this mean you won't by CD's anymore then?

[dfkt]

I don't buy that kind (http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/archives/004144.php) of music...

[obijohn]

Just so it's clear: I was not criticizing Cowon for supporting playback of DRM'd files (which is a smart business move), I was criticizing the DRM'ing of those files in the first place.

[Martinp]

Man, if I ever buy a CD that has DRM that I can't crack I will go to the shop and complain to them like fucking hell and write 10 letters to all kinds of organisations and companies.

If I buy a CD I can do whatever I bloody well want to with it.

[dfkt]

Damn straight, eXity. :thumbsup:

[notguilty]

You'd be surprised how alot of music coming out nowadays on CD format are now copy protected too. (I believ e they let you copy a couple of times then that's it) Does this mean you won't by CD's anymore then?You're assuming we'd ever even notice those discs. I could have ripped them and never even found out they had protection on them, ironically enough, and not have gotten infected with the rootkits (the same for anyone else's PC that I've set up for ripping, too), which never ceases to amuse me, and shows very well that they are attempting to stop fair use, not those people selling fake copies, or distributing copies over p2p.

[obijohn]

shows very well that they are attempting to stop fair use, not those people selling fake copies, or distributing copies over p2p.

It's a similar situation with gun laws in the USA. Make it illegal to own a gun and it mainly affects the legitimate owner just trying to protect himself, because the criminal will still have his gun no matter how illegal it is. Make it illegal to copy your own CDs and it mainly affects the legitimate owners tying to make archival copies, the big criminal copy-shops will still copy them. "Oh, you mean this is illegal? Gosh, I'd better stop mass-marketing my bootlegs then!" Riiiight.

Again, my point is that the purpose of copy-protection/DRM is to force multiple purchases of the same media by ordinary innocent users, not to stop the true criminals. No encryption for distributed media is secure because the decryption method has to be available on every player (there are several good discusions on the net about this problem and why it will always get cracked, I will find a link or 2 if anyone wants them). Putting a lock on your door only discourages the laziest of people from entering your house; the truly intent criminal will find a way to break in. They always have, they always will.

[dfkt]

If everybody boycotted that DRM-nonsense, noone bought DRMed stuff, either from the net or on CD - then, I guess, the companies would drop that stupid conduct of business at once.

Unfortunately, the majority of people simply doesn't care about those issues (or even worse: ACCEPTS it!) - and the big record companies think they can fucking do what they please...

[Martinp]

Haven't you seen the number of sales on iTunes rocket the last few months. People love this stuff.

[dfkt]

Sheep will be sheep.

(Nietzsche)