View Full Version : G3 Playmode, Shuffle, Battery bug.
I've seen so little complaints about these problems that still lingers in G3 even after the latest firmware (1.40).
I think the capability to shuffle and setup the boundaries are very basic and useful features of any DAP player. Also the battery meter won't read a low battery properly and it will 'crash' shut down instead of the smooth low battery warning auto-shutdown.
So I'm wondering if these bugs are exclusive to the 2Gig versions, or to some defective players or to all players but some users haven't realized yet there are such bugs. ??
Any ideas?
tepidarium
10-30-2005, 13:40
This doesn't sound good. Maybe people with 1gb, 521mb devices can weigh in...:confused:
It seems that the problem goes away when the Song Order is set back to the default setting 'Download Time' instead of the "File Name'.
That might be the reason many don't realize of this bug.
Most of the people probably don't mess with the song order setting.
Anyways, just to let you know if someone is interested.
Maybe the Cowon firmware people forgot to test the new firmware with the other Song Order modes.
tepidarium
10-31-2005, 17:23
Why would the default setting be 'Download time (playing time) and not "File Name" That seems counter-intuitive.
Anyhow, are you still recommeding the 2Gb version of the G3?
'Download Time' refers to the order in which the files were downloaded to the player. So if you dowload your music in alphanumerical order, it will play that way.
I still recommend the G3, although I was hesitant for these bugs before. But I'm glad I found this workaround/fix.
I still recommend the G3, If I have to buy one today, I would still go G3.
If you have doubts you can get it from Amazon.com which has a good return policy. But they don't have the 2gig version.
I got mine from Newegg.
tepidarium
10-31-2005, 19:52
Hi lucem,
Thanks for your replies. I am still interested to receive your clarification on the wma drm issue in the thread I started. (I had responded to your post in that thread) I do not wish to get off topic here. But if you can shed light on it, feel free to post in the other thread.
Thanks.
tepidarium
10-31-2005, 19:53
To be clear, you are saying that if you keep the player in "download time" setting the player will correctly, shuffle, show battery meter and smooth shut-off (not hard crash)?
Yes, the problems are solved except for the depleted battery auto-shutdown.
But the workaround/fix for the battery thing is to change the Battery type setting to Alkaline when using NiMH rechargeables, that way it will do the depleted battery shutdown smoothly.
Maybe because the threshold for remaining battery is raised ?. But I'm not sure if it is because the NiMH I am using are old.
Bear in mind that this problem only occurs when the battery is depleted, normaly the G3 would display a warning of 'Low Battery' and save the last settings before shutting itself off.
To me it seems that the low battery threshold is set too low for the NiMH setting, bacause I can see the battery status functioning well.
As for the DRM thing, I think the G3 has yet to support DRM10 AKA Janus. If you want you can point me to some free DRM10 content where I can downloaded to my G3 to see if it works and let you know.
All my audio files are in Vorbis, MP3 or WMA unprotected, so I can't say for sure.
tepidarium
11-01-2005, 17:09
As for the DRM thing, I think the G3 has yet to support DRM10 AKA Janus. If you want you can point me to some free DRM10 content where I can downloaded to my G3 to see if it works and let you know.
Hi lucem,
I don't know where you are but most public libraries in the US are using "Overdrive Media Console Player" if youa re in the US and are a member of a public library you can test an audiobook file on your G3.
tonester
11-01-2005, 23:28
Yes, the problems are solved except for the depleted battery auto-shutdown.
But the workaround/fix for the battery thing is to change the Battery type setting to Alkaline when using NiMH rechargeables, that way it will do the depleted battery shutdown smoothly.
Maybe because the threshold for remaining battery is raised ?. But I'm not sure if it is because the NiMH I am using are old.
Bear in mind that this problem only occurs when the battery is depleted, normaly the G3 would display a warning of 'Low Battery' and save the last settings before shutting itself off.
To me it seems that the low battery threshold is set too low for the NiMH setting, bacause I can see the battery status functioning well.
Unfortunately, one of the hardest things in electronics today is to accurately predict the end-of-life for NiMH battery charge. Some people may have noticed this especially with digital cameras.
The problem comes because alkaline battery voltage discharges in a continual, relatively linear, ramp. NiMH (and NiCd, for that matter) tend to hold a relatively steady voltage and then drop suddenly. Envision the difference between a nice, sloping hillside and a cliff. Unfortunately, in this case, it's hard to see the cliff until you're right at the edge, so it's hard for the unit to know when to prepare for shutdown.
Even so, seems like they shouldn't put an option in for NiMH if it's not going to work around this fact somehow.
(Gee, wouldn't it be nice to have some sort of audio cue when the battery is getting low?)
GSV3MiaC
11-02-2005, 17:37
Yes, an audible cue (at say 1.1v) would be nice. However I've done a lot of testing with NiMH cells of various ages, and capacities from 1500 to 2500 mAHrs, and the discharge/crash characteristics are, as you say, impossible to predict. Some will sit at 1.08v for an hour, some will get down to 1.15v and then crash/burn as soon as you touch a control which puts the backlight on (crash/burn implies a voltage <1.0v, as far as I can tell).
Mostly you live through it. Occasionally the 'settings.dat' rewrite dies in the middle and leaves you with a player you can't boot (just delete settings.dat, but that needs a PC) because it has screwed up and recorded something like 'restart at 4 minutes into song' without managing to change the song number to match - and the current song is only 2 minutes long. The firmware does a cr&p job of recovering from that sort of error (basically it just reboots forever).
babyivan
11-03-2005, 11:29
It seems that the problem goes away when the Song Order is set back to the default setting 'Download Time' instead of the "File Name'.
That might be the reason many don't realize of this bug.
Most of the people probably don't mess with the song order setting.
Anyways, just to let you know if someone is interested.
Maybe the Cowon firmware people forgot to test the new firmware with the other Song Order modes.
Good news!!!!!
The play mode options work in all song order modes!!!!!
Instead of hitting the record button to get out of the play mode menu after you have altered your settings, click back(rewind) on the joystick to get out of the menu mode. You will now see that your new shuffle and or random and or boundary settings have been set.
On another note....I just got my 2gb G3 yesterday, and I can honestly say that it's by far the best flash player Ive ever seen!!!
As soon as I pulled it out of the box, the first thing I did was install firmware 1.40....dont be afraid of new firmware people......it's our friend!
I got one question Lucem....when your backlight is on, is there a little spot of blue shining through on your G3 as well?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v478/babyivan/IMG_17191.jpg
Unfortunately, one of the hardest things in electronics today is to accurately predict the end-of-life for NiMH battery charge. Some people may have noticed this especially with digital cameras.
The problem comes because alkaline battery voltage discharges in a continual, relatively linear, ramp. NiMH (and NiCd, for that matter) tend to hold a relatively steady voltage and then drop suddenly. Envision the difference between a nice, sloping hillside and a cliff. Unfortunately, in this case, it's hard to see the cliff until you're right at the edge, so it's hard for the unit to know when to prepare for shutdown.
Even so, seems like they shouldn't put an option in for NiMH if it's not going to work around this fact somehow.
(Gee, wouldn't it be nice to have some sort of audio cue when the battery is getting low?)
Well, I have gone through 4 (four) G3s. And this battery drainage was no problem with the older firmwares. So the G3 is perfectly capable of giving enough low battery warning to do a self-shutdown. Also I have two Panasonic Wireless phones that use NiMH batteries and both of them warn with a beep when they are running out of juice.
So I think that the problem is either the firmware ot the battery/charger I'm using.
Maybe I've to check carefully to see if is only the batteries.
Hi, I'm glad you went with the G3 2Gig, It is a great player despite some imperfections.
Yep, I checked mine for that light and I have that too.
I think We should not worry about it.
Now as for the song order bug. You'll see 2 problems if you change the 'Song Order' to other than 'Download Time'.
First: the bootup time will get excruciating slow.
Second: The Shuffle won't shuffle all the songs. It will play only the first 2/3 of songs the rest top 1/3 won't get into the shuffle queue.
You can see that by setting Boundary to "A" all, and 'Shuffle'. Now check the number at the bottom right of the LCD as you skip forward through several songs, and you'll see that the top 1/3 will never play.
The good news is that at least it is working in the "Download Time' setting.
babyivan
11-03-2005, 12:44
Hi, I'm glad you went with the G3 2Gig, It is a great player despite some imperfections.
Yep, I checked mine for that light and I have that too.
I think We should not worry about it.
Now as for the song order bug. You'll see 2 problems if you change the 'Song Order' to other than 'Download Time'.
First: the bootup time will get excruciating slow.
Second: The Shuffle won't shuffle all the songs. It will play only the first 2/3 of songs the rest top 1/3 won't get into the shuffle queue.
You can see that by setting Boundary to "A" all, and 'Shuffle'. Now check the number at the bottom right of the LCD as you skip forward through several songs, and you'll see that the top 1/3 will never play.
The good news is that at least it is working in the "Download Time' setting.
The boot time does increase, but that doesnt really bother me that much ;)
Im not having that problem with the shuffle feature, I set it exactly as you say and it shuffled through the gammit of tracks that I have on the player....the high ones as well as the low ones.
Now if they would just increase the file/folder capacity, I can die a happy man!:bigthumbs
Not that I even come close to the limit......but still!!
The boot time does increase, but that doesnt really bother me that much ;)
Im not having that problem with the shuffle feature, I set it exactly as you say and it shuffled through the gammit of tracks that I have on the player....the high ones as well as the low ones.
Now if they would just increase the file/folder capacity, I can die a happy man!:bigthumbs
Not that I even come close to the limit......but still!!
Weird !?
Do you have it really loaded !?
How many tracks. now? I have 456.
babyivan
11-03-2005, 12:54
Weird !?
Do you have it really loaded !?
How many tracks. now? I have 456.
127 tracks thus far
hehe 127 is nothing dude.
But hey, report back when is really loaded.
The bug is back even with the Song Order set to default.
Have I a defective player.!?
babyivan
11-03-2005, 13:32
The bug is back even with the Song Order set to default.
Have I a defective player.!?
did you try backing out of the menu rather then pressing record?
tallpedro
11-11-2005, 03:26
Someone please clarify the file /folder limit. I knew there was some space on the 2 gig that was not accessible but I haven't seen the numbers. I'm hoping future firmware will address this!
GSV3MiaC
11-11-2005, 12:03
With the latest firmware, 650 MUSIC files, and 53 TOTAL folders (including the 6 that the player sets up itself). Any more and you'll start losing some (and which ones you lose is far from obvious).
There was also a (separate) limit on memory, but that was fixed several firmware releases ago I believe. Not a problem for me, I bought the 1GB model, sicne at Q=0 .OGG 1Gb is already banging on the file number limit.
babyivan
11-11-2005, 12:16
With the latest firmware, 650 MUSIC files, and 53 TOTAL folders (including the 6 that the player sets up itself). Any more and you'll start losing some (and which ones you lose is far from obvious).
There was also a (separate) limit on memory, but that was fixed several firmware releases ago I believe. Not a problem for me, I bought the 1GB model, sicne at Q=0 .OGG 1Gb is already banging on the file number limit.
Lastest firmware??....I believe they increased the file/folder limit in 1.30 (http://www.cowonamerica.com/download/iaudio_rn_g3.html).....were already up to 1.50beta.
Either way, the limit was increased making us all a little happier (and would be even happier if they increased it to atleast 1000/100!!, for those of us with the 2gig version:bigthumbs )
GSV3MiaC
11-13-2005, 11:28
Lastest firmware??.... I believe they increased the file/folder limit in 1.30
They did, however it is still perfectly possible to own, or even buy, a player with firmware older than 1.30. The oldest firmare =doesn't= support the 650 files I mentioned. the =latest= does. I made no comment about any versions in between.
babyivan
11-14-2005, 11:24
They did, however it is still perfectly possible to own, or even buy, a player with firmware older than 1.30. The oldest firmare =doesn't= support the 650 files I mentioned. the =latest= does. I made no comment about any versions in between.
good point.
My point in bringing up that 1.30 also has the increased folder limit was just let people know that they dont have to install the 1.40 or 1.50beta to get this beneifit, seeing as the Cowon USA site still shows 1.30 as the newest firmware.
My G3 had the 1.30 firmware when I bought it, but it had a sticker was on the box claiming it had the 450 limit, how odd.....they must have used an older box to package my player \/
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v478/babyivan/IMG_1729.jpg
GSV3MiaC
11-16-2005, 16:21
They're probably =still= shipping units in those same boxes - I doubt anyone at Cowon remembers that the limit was printed on the box, or if they do remember I doubt they can be bothered to change the box design (again).
My UK packaging must be earlier, since it just has the 'actual formatted capacity may be less' .. I guess that's before they got dinged about the 450 files limit (much egg on face).
I bought my G3 2gig to just shuffle large amounts of music. Since their shuffle does NOT seem to work in any mode, I came up with this work around using Musicmatch
It is done by using Musicmatch Portable device manager's sync process. The Sync process has options to select files to load randomly from a music source or Playlist. G3 is left in "download time" file order
Loaded over 580 files - no duplicates - randomly loaded. Now I just play it sequentially and get my random shuffle. Not good for those who like order on their device - but it works!
The Portable device manager load is SLOW - but I got what I wanted - true random shuffle with no repeats over all songs loaded - and no G3 playlist limitations or shuffle problems
Here is how it is done.....
Create a play list containing more music than will fit on you G3
Go to Device manager with G3 plugged in.
Click on Sync
Select “I’d like to see options for automating the process..."
"Allow deletion" is up to you
Next
Select - "Choose Random assortment of tracks from all sources I select"
Next
At this screen you can choose the titles/artest/albums that you want or use a play list that you have created in Musicmatch ( I used a play list with 5G of songs selected)
On the Last screen select if you want to start sync automatically every time you plug the device in - that means start copying without allowing you to select anything. I choose "show assistant..."
Press Copy now. It will start to load files in a true random order to your G3 – But SLOWLY,,,,
Once done just play the G3 sequentially and you will get a true random play.
Note - I do not get any folders sorting the music by artist when I use a play list.
All Music is loaded to the root of the MUSIC folder - My Playlist was called MUSIC - which may be why - still have more testing to do with the Portable device manager to check out some options:
1. Want to see if allow deletion will cause the playlist to be reordered/loaded with different songs from the same list and if new nusic source is selected
2. Want to see if selecting multiple play lists will create sepperate directories. Want to match musc loaded to Mood/Activity based play lists
3. Test to see if random load will create directories based on playlists selected
But for now I am happy and will spend some time listening to my 31 hours of random music..... ;)
....... Hoping thy freggen fix it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
babyivan
12-02-2005, 12:09
The shuffle DOES work....I dont know what your talking about.
read this:
Good news!!!!!
The play mode options work in all song order modes!!!!!
Instead of hitting the record button to get out of the play mode menu after you have altered your settings, click back(rewind) on the joystick to get out of the menu mode. You will now see that your new shuffle and or random and or boundary settings have been set.
Firmware 1.40e latest from Cowon web site
Loading files by artists in one directory - Music. 580 files are loaded
File order set to Download time
Using "A" for all files and selecting shuffle checked and backing out by using the rewind/back toggle on the joystick
Shuffle "works" like this:
Shuffles to files in the ranges of first 150 files and beyond 350 (that was with 495 files loaded) - Never plays files in the 200-300 range.
Repeats songs as it plays
After Playiing about 120 songs starts to play songs sequetially from last song played before it stopped shuffling
I have repeated this test several times with both 1.30e and 1.40e firmware
Any Suggestions?
P.S. When I turn off the device and back on - it rembers the last song where it was as but turns off shuffle function
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