View Full Version : where the heck is the drm / id3 firmware upgrade!!
tongkacom
10-14-2005, 03:08
when i bought my x5 (in early august) i was told that a new firmware upgrade was coming that would allow the x5 to play wma drm files and browse by ID3 tag - i was told this would be by early september. well, its now mid october and still now sign. i hear people talking about drm10/subscription support - i'd be happy with just regular drm9 support - what gives??
and the inability to browse via ID3 tag is inexcusable - this is a basic requirement of mp3 players in my book - where the heck is this upgrade.
i think my player is great in terms of looks, battery life and colour screen but the poor usability and drm support issue is depressing. come on cowon cough up the firmware!!
Yeah, It is about time...
what will I do with my mornings when DRM comes?
Right now I get all excited, goto cowon's site, come here, look for new firmware and weep.
Read before you post. (http://www.iaudiophile.net/forums/showthread.php?t=4581)
Look at post #4 (http://www.iaudiophile.net/forums/showpost.php?p=42058&postcount=4) that I made a few days ago.
Konechiwa
10-14-2005, 21:44
aindfan, i don't think its that everyone isn't patient, i think that they feel they have been patient ENOUGH, espicially since it has been moved back. Now if they said it would be in October from the start, well then, people would be less ancy.
You're exactly right Konechiwa
Stormblade
10-15-2005, 07:36
aindfan, i don't think its that everyone isn't patient, i think that they feel they have been patient ENOUGH, espicially since it has been moved back. Now if they said it would be in October from the start, well then, people would be less ancy.
If people would start buying players with the features they really want, there would not be a problem. Why are people pissy about features that are only a BONUS to the X5! DRM and ID3-browsing weren't and aren't standart features of the X5 so why to hell have you bought a X5 if you want these features so much????
We should be glad that Cowon is trying to implemate this features to give us a bonus! So stop complaining about the god damn release date.
@Stormblade
Wow, calm down man.
You forget that most people like me bought their X5's only because DRM & id3-browsing has been already anounced by cowon at this moment.
Take me for example:
I needed about some weeks of doing research for deciding what player would fullfill my needs best. (remember, iaudiophiles are not iPoders - we all had to do some research before buying the X5)
Upcoming DRM & id3-support were the only facts that finally convinced me buying my X5.
So I personally don't think that DRM & id3-browsing are just a bonus.
But I also think that cowon shouldn't announce any more false "release dates".
That is in fact what makes people complain.
tongkacom
10-15-2005, 08:36
just to reply to some of these posts - i've owned several mp3 players - going back close to 8 years now (yes mp3 is that old ;p ) - nowadays ID3 browsing and wma DRM (for players that support the wma codec) are basic features of most mp3 players - these are MP3 PLAYERS we are buying not just souped up portable HDDs right?? i dont think its asking too much to expect this from an innovative company like cowon.
yes, i did purchase the x5 (i even waited for the x5L cause i wanted the extra space and battery) in the knowledge that 'soon-to-be-released' firmware upgrades would address these short-comings, so my irritation is at the continued delay - i buy alot of music online (non itunes of course) and i cant play the damn things in my favourite player! furthermore its a bitch trying to find single songs unless i have created specific folders for them - a problem i have in none of my other players.
sorry for the continued bitch but seeing the new ipod video was the final nail in my mp3 coffin......
Konechiwa
10-15-2005, 10:59
If people would start buying players with the features they really want, there would not be a problem. Why are people pissy about features that are only a BONUS to the X5! DRM and ID3-browsing weren't and aren't standart features of the X5 so why to hell have you bought a X5 if you want these features so much????
We should be glad that Cowon is trying to implemate this features to give us a bonus! So stop complaining about the god damn release date.
they are for iRiver/Creative/Apple. Almost everyone one of their players fits some type of DRM system (iTunes, Yahoo, Napster, Rhapsody).
Cowon should look at this as a mistake and implement these features from the get-go on their future players (U3 People are you listening?)
You could always just burn to cd's and rerip them and put them onto your X5. BTW, I'm sure youve heard this, but DRM is pretty low quality. For cheaper than a $1 per song, you can get good quality music, at allofmp3.com . Thats where i get most of my music, it works great, no DRM and its cheap.
And illegal. But let's not worry about that. Though why you would pay someone for rights they can't grant, I don't know. You might as well steal the music. Your liability wouldn't be any higher, and there wouldn't be such a nice paper trail to convict you.
Russj1975
10-17-2005, 03:27
legally allofmp3.com is an unknown quantity. copyright on digital media does not exist in Russia. I have used the service - turn a blind eye and the delivery of media is outstanding. Who else provides online real time encoding in the format of your choice at the quality of your choice, in mp3, wma, ogg, flac.... if it were made legal it would easily be the best source of digital music. In any case, copying music in any form is illegal, and we are all perpertators of that crime! as for distributing our tracks or albums to our mates, well thats quite naughty as well.
If we are going to pay for music (as of course we should) much better to buy the cd and rip to whatever format you want. Nothing worse that buying an album only to lose it and have to buy it all over again!!
regarding firmware, i bought the x5 beacuse its the only other player out there that plays flac files after my rio karma bit the dust. Navigating to folders is simply not an issue for me. I know exactly where to find tracks and albums on my computer because i file them logicaly - why should a DAP be any different? I know my music collection (120 albums plus) well enough to know exactly where to find specific tracks so its not a problem. Couldn't care less if cowon never releases id3 browsing
gapless audio would be a nice upgrade though!!
Stormblade
10-17-2005, 09:37
they are for iRiver/Creative/Apple. Almost everyone one of their players fits some type of DRM system (iTunes, Yahoo, Napster, Rhapsody).
Cowon should look at this as a mistake and implement these features from the get-go on their future players (U3 People are you listening?)
Well if you ask me, there are people out there, who bought the X5 because it doesn't have any DRM System Support...
And why should Cowon see this as a mistake?? When i want a mp3 player with DRM, i go to apple and get me an ipod. If i don't care about DRM but other features i get myself a X5. So where's the problem? To me the DRM update isn't important.
And @nocomp:
when you are going to buy a car, and they show you one without any motor and tell you that the motor will be ready in a few month... would you also buy it like you did with your x5?
A company can tell much about features that are coming someday. So if your buying something because of the word of the producers that the feature will come, it's your own fault.
oh and by the way to id3 browsing: i had several players with id3 browsing and finding some files was very difficult compared to the file browsing system of the x5. so i'd like to stay with the file browsing method.
Stormblade
P.S.: sorry for my bad english
@stormblade
People are different and so are their needs. (for gods sake)
Only because you don't want/need this features (DRM & id3) does not mean that nobody else wants/needs them.
And you know what: Most X5-people TRUST in Cowons announcements and products because they have shown top of the notch firmware-policy in recent years which I'm aware of, cause I'm a senior reader of this forum. Wow, you didn't consider this, hah?
AND: It's not about having id3- OR filetree-browsing. It's about having both to combine the best of two worlds, man! Always this black/white-thinking - the world is full of colours!
Btw: Bad example/comparison you bring up here. The motor of a car would be equivalent to a main X5-feature like playing any music. That would be it's main purpose like a cars is to drive. Something like electrical adjustable seats would have been more equivalent to a feature like id3-browsing. Both very convenient features in everyday life.
Stormblade
10-18-2005, 05:28
its not about what i want or not. the point is if i needed id3 browsing and drm i wouldn't have bought a x5 in the first place.
and you not what: i'm also a senior reader of this forum but this doesn't change my opinion that you shouldn't something because of features that aren't there, yet.
to id3 browsing combined with filebrowsing. if i'm not totally wrong most id3 browsing players use a database to find the files/tags. but this means to be able to use the id3 browsing you need a software to transfer your files to the x5. if i'm correct that would mean you can't use both browsing methods at the same time because if you transfer the files to the x5 organized in folders the database couldn't find them and if you transfer them with the program the files aren't organized in folders? (at least it was this way with my old creative models)
if i'm wrong please let me know.
Stormblade
You're wrong :-|)
The way you've discribed is the way Archos players work. They are UMS compliant, but they have and ID3 based browsing too, and you don't need any software.
Cowon can do it this way, and it will definitely be a huge advantage for the X5...
Yeah Stormblade, you're wrong!
Another example besides Archos:
My old MPIO HD300 20GB DAP used both (filetree & id3) at the same time.
This was possible because of a small Windows-based MPIO program that scanned the whole DAP's HDD for id3-tags after you copied the files with windows-explorer. The small programm just generated playlists for every Artist, Album, Track and Genre. Unfortunately it didn't add more than 256 Artists, Albums or Tracks to each category.
Btw the MPIO's Firmware was crap too, so I bought the X5, which after 5 months still has no id3-tag-browsing!
Stormblade
10-18-2005, 11:00
Ok because of that i said let me know if i'm wrong ;)
But has there been any clues in which way cowon wants to implement the id3 browsing at all? or even an official message that they will implement it in the next firmware? they said that drm is coming in the next update but they didn't say anything about id3 browsing?
Stormblade
I thought they've said they were working on it, but I do not believe it was official.
I know that several people mailed cowon support asking for a future id3-tag-firmware and everybody got the same answere: It should be released right after the DRM-update, but DRM definately has more priority for Cowon right now.
Maybe we're lucky and both will be released at the same time??
Konechiwa
10-18-2005, 16:58
well i hope their still working on it...im getting a little tired of waiting
chillaxtodamax
10-18-2005, 19:00
hey, I'm new here. I am REALLY wanting to buy the x5 20 gig one.... but the id3 browsing is holding me back. anyone have any NEW news on it? ive read and searched this place and it doesnt seem like anyone has any concrete info on whether or not this will be released. like madcow said, all I've seen is people mentioning it, but nothing really official.
Iaudio_God
10-18-2005, 19:06
Dear Valued Customer,
I know you have all been waiting patiently for this DRM firmware, they have decided to release it in a about 2-3 days. Not sure if it will carry the napster certification but I believe it will still work without it. You will be able to use the player with Yahoo music alot easier, from what I know. The release is just a beta because it is not perfect. But for those who don't really care much and are too anxious go ahead and give it a shot. The download should be available at the cowon america site.
Regards,
iaudio_god
Konechiwa
10-18-2005, 19:30
Dear Valued Customer,
The release is just a beta because it is not perfect. But for those who don't really care much and are too anxious go ahead and give it a shot.
Regards,
iaudio_god
Of course it is a beta, but, iaudio god that sounds like "Ya we finally got it, although it isn't working very well with napster, here you go, sh*t happens so if it breaks oh well"
I AM ANXIOUS
DRM 2-3 DAYS THAT FRIDAY MAX
WOOOO HOOOO
WOOOO HOOOO
WOOOO HOOOO
:) :) :) :) :)
chillaxtodamax
10-18-2005, 19:45
so id3 tags are soon to follow...right iaudio_god?
Exactly what I've been saying: if they rush the DRM firmware, it will be buggy. iRiver's 1.25 korean firmware (EDIT: for H300) reduced the battery life from 16 hours to 7 hours. I hope this sort of thing doesnt happen here.
Konechiwa
10-18-2005, 20:39
why does everyone hate drm? i mean, if you don't like it, don't use it! its as simple as that.
Stop complaining about something your not going to use.
Oh and aindfan, i don't think its going to happen. Apparently (from what i hear) its Napster bulk downloading that is causing the delay. Hopefully it will be bug free, just a little glitchy when it comes to napster (i don't use it anyway! woohoo!)
I certainly hope not!
Even when the H300 bug occured, I kept the new firmware because it added a feature: scan through video.
As you can tell, I'd rather have incomplete beta software than the secure, tested version. But I can wait for the beta to be released so it works a bit. The last thing I want is a bricked X5.
Konechiwa
10-18-2005, 22:58
Iaudio_god whats the next thing for firmware you guys are gonna work on? (after the whole DRM fiasco). ID3? Slideshows?
Slideshows would be so nice.
Iaudio_God
10-19-2005, 11:58
Iaudio_god whats the next thing for firmware you guys are gonna work on? (after the whole DRM fiasco). ID3? Slideshows?
id3 tags are definitely really important. We need this to be able to work with certain features when Jetaudio 7 releases.
id3 tags are definitely really important. We need this to be able to work with certain features when Jetaudio 7 releases.
"certain features" - how tantalizing! Looking forward to it!
Oh Iaudio_God. :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy
chillaxtodamax
10-19-2005, 17:58
well Im REALLY glad its going forward. I been reading around and I really thought things were stuck and nothing was going to happen. I think I will order a X5 now and wait for the id3 tags
NoMoleste
10-19-2005, 18:56
I did quite a bit of research on allofmp3.com and found a couple of interesting things...
1. They have been in business for years.
2. They have never had to fight a lawsuit. Not one.
3. Couldn't find one unsatisfied customer that's posted their complaint online
4. On-the-fly encoding is great and I can't beleive no other music sites offer it.
I did quite a bit of research on allofmp3.com and found a couple of interesting things...
1. They have been in business for years.
2. They have never had to fight a lawsuit. Not one.
3. Couldn't find one unsatisfied customer that's posted their complaint online
4. On-the-fly encoding is great and I can't beleive no other music sites offer it.
:confused:
They've probably never fought a lawsuit because they're BASED IN RUSSIA!
chillaxtodamax
10-20-2005, 07:30
yup. I was listening to some radio show who were talkin about that site. Because they originate in Russia and there aren't any piracy laws over there, its "legal" to download music from them.
I read over at misticriver last spring that allofmp3 was going to be sued but because of a loophole they could not be legally shut down. The loophole is apparently trying to be closed by their government, but the beauracracy is holding it back, so what I'm trying to say I guess is that they're safe for now.
PropagandaX
10-20-2005, 13:29
Really whats the problem? 1st of all you are purchasing a lower quality sound file. The better the quality the more you pay.....and if you want gapless then you pay almost full price for the cd quality. This should be the model for downloading music! Right now the options for legal downloads are pathetic. Why can i not go online and download a gapless album and pay the price for it. Or why can i not choose a cheaper low quality album for less money. All of this DMR stuff is really just an obstruction for whats to come. Lets make everything illegal and then provide no "legitimate" options for people to get good quality music.
HiMDforMe
10-20-2005, 17:42
:bigthumbs i can't wait for the drm firmware update. i'll just be getting my x5 tomorrow (because i missed the UPS guy today :mad: ) and i've subscribed to Yahoo music a month or so ago and i've got tons of music waiting to go out. til now i've been recording the streams to mp3 (and i'll probably continue to do that so they're mine to keep) but it'll be great just to load it up and go!
Iaudio_God
10-20-2005, 18:13
DRM 10 support is here!!!
http://iaudiophile.net/forums/showthread.php?t=4769
handelmannis
10-20-2005, 20:46
i think il wait for final release though since i dont use drm anyway
cant wait for id3 though
PigCorpse
10-20-2005, 20:48
Personally, DRM support isn't of too much importance. But it's nice to know Cowon is actively working on new firmwares!
What I consider important is gapless playback. ID3 databasing isn't too bad neither, but the filetree must never die.
DRM is here! look on the front page.
has ANYONE got this to work??
me: no. i tried several things. sent email to cowon.
i recommend avoiding this firmware until Cowon responds.
I'm not going to heed your (actually very good) advice.
I'm downloading it right now, will install within the next 5 minutes... wish me luck (I'll report back)
NOOOOOOOOOOOOO, I can't download >:-(
has anyone been able to download it? if so, can you mirror??
liborkid
10-21-2005, 11:08
Try from here:
http://www.cowonamerica.com/news/details_121.html
HiMDforMe
10-21-2005, 16:11
just updated the drm firmware and had no problems. listening to music right now from yahoo unlimited. let me know if you need the update and i can email it:rock:
HiMDforMe
10-21-2005, 17:34
update: well, i just transferred about 1.5GB from the yahoo music unlimited service using WMP10 to sync. that seems the best way to do it. very nice and easy. this is an awesome update...thanks Cowon! the files and everything works great. it'd be awesome if it was still usb 2.0, but can't expect it all at once i guess. i don't know the mechanics behind it either, but i know there's a reason we have to use the usb host port.
Discodave
10-21-2005, 22:20
update: well, i just transferred about 1.5GB from the yahoo music unlimited service using WMP10 to sync. that seems the best way to do it. very nice and easy. this is an awesome update...thanks Cowon! the files and everything works great. it'd be awesome if it was still usb 2.0, but can't expect it all at once i guess. i don't know the mechanics behind it either, but i know there's a reason we have to use the usb host port.
My Yahoo Music keeps freezing on me at startup. Are you all able to get the device to connect inside their music browser?
If I plugin my X5 after it is opened...it detects the device and tries to read the files from it...unfortunately it eventually freezes and says I/O error.
I tried clearing off all my files and plugging it in with no luck. I still had files (and a lot of them) in my "Records" folder. I'm going to try emptying that out as well.
Curious to know if anyone else has gotten the I/O error after about 10 minutes of waiting....also, do the DRM songs ever "expire" ? As in, if I cancel my Yahoo music service - will my files still work on the X5 forever?
BirdFish
10-21-2005, 22:38
Depends on whether you have a subscription based file or whether you bought the file. If you bought the file and can burn it to a cd, I would highly suggest this. Burning to a cd cracks the drm.
update: well, i just transferred about 1.5GB from the yahoo music unlimited service using WMP10 to sync. that seems the best way to do it. very nice and easy. this is an awesome update...thanks Cowon! the files and everything works great. it'd be awesome if it was still usb 2.0, but can't expect it all at once i guess. i don't know the mechanics behind it either, but i know there's a reason we have to use the usb host port.
I too am able to transfer music using Yahoo. (Thanks Cowon)
How do you transfer music to specific folders? For me it always ends up in the root folder
I also am able to use Yahoo but I use WMP to transfer the files. What I do is I download the songs I want using the Yahoo Music Engine WITHOUT the X5 connected. I have the Yahoo download folder setup as a monitored folder in WMP so I have WMP running at the same time the Yahoo is downloading the files so that it picks them up automatically. AFter all of the files have been downloaded, I close the Yahoo Music Engine and connect the X5. WMP picks it up right away and I go to the SYNC tab and select All Music as the sync playlist. I press sync and it syncs it up without putting everything to the root. All the music goes to the Music folder and is separated out by Artist and the Album. Sometimes the X5 locks up during the transfer so I disconnect it, reset it with a paper clip if needed, and then start the transfer process over again. It picks up where it left off. Hopefully future firmware updates will simplify the process and make it more reliable but so far it is working for me.
HiMDforMe
10-25-2005, 16:08
like the previous post, download the music you want without the x5 connected. when you're ready to put the music on the x5 use wmp10 to sync and it'll automatically put the music in artist, album folders. putting the music on from yahoo program makes it all single tracks. so, use wmp10. its easier anyway. you can open wmp to the sync screen with x5 connected and it should detect it. then you can drag all the tracks on there you want and start sync and it'll all get separated.
yup. I was listening to some radio show who were talkin about that site. Because they originate in Russia and there aren't any piracy laws over there, its "legal" to download music from them.
Do people just make this stuff up or what?
Russia still have distribution agreements with record companies - meaning that yes, there are piracy laws there. They're not very respected, but they do exist; if allofmp3.com had been trading worldwide so illegally, they would have been shut down long ago.
The reason Allofmp3.com have such cheap music is that they exploit a loophole in the Russian distribution laws - they can legally buy a single CD copy of the album, rip it, upload it and pass it on, paying minimal royalties compared to a similar service in the west.
It would be nice if the X5 were able to read/write to the Star rating that iTunes uses. Traktor from Native Instruments reads/writes to the same ID3 field.
Ifthatsthewayitis
12-07-2005, 11:45
I would love to have a Star Rating that can be exchanged maybe with the Windows Media Player?
black jesus
12-07-2005, 12:15
If you can't get arround DRM, you should have purchased an ipod.
I would like to see the id3 tag browsing though.
onelasttime
12-07-2005, 20:35
If you can't get arround DRM, you should have purchased an ipod.
If that were the only thing the poster were to consider, maybe so. However, Cowon promised DRM - and people who wanted DRM picked the X5 over other DRM players for other reasons.
If you can't get arround DRM, you should have purchased an ipod.
I would like to see the id3 tag browsing though.
As far as I know, the iPod does not support DRM outside of iTunes. So instead I purchased a player that I was told would be supporting DRM very soon.
It'd be nice if the new ID3 firmware version were able to view/edit the 5 star rating field....the same one that iTunes uses.
well, its not going to work with itunes is it? be a bit sensible - there's no point in doing that when the X5 does not support .m4p (the apple DRM format). If it's done at all it would be for WMP 10 - and i doubt that will happen. There are much better features that could be added (although it would be quite good) - such as slideshows (with music) and gapless playback - at least with ogg. Also support for vorbis tags would be useful.
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