View Full Version : Future Cowon Players (What they Need)
Konechiwa
10-12-2005, 18:41
For the next Harddrive Player (X5 succesor) I believe it needs:
1) 20,30,60GB versions right of the bat
2) DRM WMA v10 (or whatever when it comes out), FLAC, MP3+VBR, OGG+VBR, WAV, WMA
3) 2" (Minimum, preferably 2.2-2.5) OLED Screen, with at least 200x170 resolution ( i don't care what it costs just DO IT!)
4) Faster processor for viewing movies at 30 Fps
5)USB OTG at USB 2.0 Speeds
6) Slideshow capability (music while viewing photos)
7) ID3 and File-tree browsing
8) L version for ALL (yes 60GB too)
9) I think a case should come with (like the iRiver H10)
I believe that adequete prices for this would be:
20GB X6: 299.99
20GB X6L:319.99
30GB X6: 349.99
30GB X6L:369.99
60GB X6: 399.99
60GB X6L:419.99
All in USD (American $)
People should add what they think it needs.
notguilty
10-12-2005, 21:10
I'm not interested in HDD DAPs, so this is very different :).
1. Gapless playback. I'd put up with a Walkman or Ipod for format-independent gapless playback.
2. Card slot. CF, SD, or MCC (a SD/MMC would be nice), with support for at least 16GB (you can get 8GB now), preferably on the bottom, with the ability to use the device as two hubbed USB flash drives (even if the speed would suck).
3. Thin OLED display with a matte backing. I've only seen this on a cell phone once, but without a glossy back, OLEDs aren't hard to read in bright light.
4.I. A lanyard that connects to both sides of the player, or its case, so it stays facing forward.
4.II. Or, a nice belt clip on a hard plastic (or fabric) case.
5. Some way to get a nice line out (a true line out). Not as important as the rest, but very nice, and one of the few tempting things about the Ipods.
6. Different features. Don't just make some flash DAPs that are the same aside from the battery in functionality. I'd rather have a line-out than mic-in, don't care one bit about FM radio, etc.. Why not have a basic DAP, with good but simple features, like an Ipod without DRM?
7. Not DAP-related, but...more U.S. presence. If people outside of a Fry's knew that there was competition for iRiver...generally, those that don't want iRiver get Creative, PNY, or Sandisk, neither of which have the quality that iRiver offers, but they don't know that there are DAPs with similar and higher quality with similar features.
vidas7de7jesus7
10-12-2005, 22:23
I believe Cowon should come out with a microdrive player. The market is huge for them, do to the fact that most people only have small to medium size music collections.
Features
1. ID3 and file tree browsing- this would be handy and appeal to alot of people.
2. Thin and small- like the Rio Carbon and the IPod Nano (blech) thin is definately hot
3. All the standard Cowon features- Radio, voice, and line-in recording, FM tuner, excellent sound, multiple codecs, etc.
4. Great battery life- 20 hours standard would be preferred.
5. affordable- 5 gig should be (if possible) between $175- $180. Zen micro is, carbon is.
6. and, possibly, have it come in up to 8 or 10 gig (zen micro photo is 8) the hard drive is out there, use it.
overall, interface should be excellent, everything should be up to and exceeding expectations. iaudio, from what i can tell, has a reputation for reliable products that work. this should be continued. i dunno, though, some people don't like the joystick, should they try to improve it? overall, i say no because i think the joystick is nice (my rio chiba has 1) and i'm used to it. Think about it iAudio (i know... this isn't an official iaudio forum).
oh, yes, USB-OTG would be nice, as would not having a subpack, they fixed it on the M5, they can do it again. but, they should start selling line in (straight to dock, no subpack needed) cables. a color screen is unneccessary, but it'd be nice to have USB-OTG just to dump your camera on to.
I’m not interested in HD-based devices either. I really love the iAudio G3, but I would appreciate the following additions to it:
* SD-card compartment. SD-cards are great, especially if the player can’t get up to the storage capacity of the iPod Nano. However, instead of an exterior slot for the SD-card, the slot should be completely enclosed, like the way that it would be on a digital camera. The Lexar LDP-600 has this. In contrast, the Sandisk Sansa e100 series keeps the card exposed on the outside of the player, leaving it suseptible to damage while the player takes the regular abuse of anything that’s typically kept in your pocket.
* 4+GB of Nand if possible.
* Change the GUI slightly so that the highliter/cursor stays in the middle while only the list of files moves. That would make it quicker to navigate because it allows the user to see what files are before and after the currently highlit file. The way it currently is, when the user moves the cursor downwards to the bottom of the screen, they you can’t see what file comes next (below that) unless they highlite it. Same problem with moving the cursor to the top - they can’t see the next file above without highliting it.
* No more OS-specific firmware installation apps. Instead, make the firmware be a file that you drag and drop onto the player, then it self-launches the next time you turn the player on and that’s when the firmware upgrade process takes place.
BTW, anyone know why the forums index says that this forum has 100 threads and 892 posts in it? I only see one thread, and only 3 messages posted (including this one).
notguilty
10-13-2005, 02:20
I think the posts and threads has something to do with the software change. You can search and find threads that are not listed.
Iaudio_God
10-13-2005, 18:06
Dear All,
These are all great ideas, but Cowon believes that the idea of having slightly larger lcds and better frames per second increase resolution would fall to close to the same aspects of a PMP. A line has to be drawn somewhere, because these are specifically DAP players. A balance needs to be met as far as pricing and features. Anything is possible, but will it be affordable?
Regards,
Iaudio_god
Dear All,
These are all great ideas, but Cowon believes that the idea of having slightly larger lcds and better frames per second increase resolution would fall to close to the same aspects of a PMP. A line has to be drawn somewhere, because these are specifically DAP players. A balance needs to be met as far as pricing and features. Anything is possible, but will it be affordable?
Regards,
Iaudio_god
EXACTLY!!!!!!
Want a pvp go get an archos
Want excellent dap x5l
Want somthing that sucks at both get an ipod
Oh ,and about that drm..........forgot to mention that today
ohh, that was low. ZING!
anyway. i agree with iaudio_god 100%.
Pete7874
10-13-2005, 23:04
Digital/optical audio out and truly gapless playback are the two most important ones that I'd like to see.
proximal
10-14-2005, 00:28
I'd like a mechanical scroll device for navigation and dedicated volume buttons. As far as firmware goes, just add gapless for all supported formats and an option for database navigation to the current X5 feature set.
Konechiwa
10-14-2005, 19:18
well i really think cowon should do 30fps now with a bigger screen at good res., espicially since the iPod can now play videos. If they don't, well then, whats the point of making it, when the iPod can do something better?
well i really think cowon should do 30fps now with a bigger screen at good res., espicially since the iPod can now play videos. If they don't, well then, whats the point of making it, when the iPod can do something better?
Ha... What exactly is better....even podpeople dont get it. read faithful podpeople comments over yonder ..http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/news/comments/5642/
Konechiwa
10-15-2005, 11:56
well ok maybe not 30fps but like 23 or something, because you at least need to make it worth while if your gonna add the feature.
Oh and you should really do the res. of the screen. If not the movie thing (20fps maybe please?) Because everyone is complaining about that, movie or not.
Oh and maybe you should do individual cables and no subpack. like a line in, line out, and USB, and charger.
Konechiwa
10-15-2005, 12:01
I'm not interested in HDD DAPs, so this is very different :).
1. Gapless playback. I'd put up with a Walkman or Ipod for format-independent gapless playback.
2. Card slot. CF, SD, or MCC (a SD/MMC would be nice), with support for at least 16GB (you can get 8GB now), preferably on the bottom, with the ability to use the device as two hubbed USB flash drives (even if the speed would suck).
3. Thin OLED display with a matte backing. I've only seen this on a cell phone once, but without a glossy back, OLEDs aren't hard to read in bright light.
4.I. A lanyard that connects to both sides of the player, or its case, so it stays facing forward.
4.II. Or, a nice belt clip on a hard plastic (or fabric) case.
5. Some way to get a nice line out (a true line out). Not as important as the rest, but very nice, and one of the few tempting things about the Ipods.
6. Different features. Don't just make some flash DAPs that are the same aside from the battery in functionality. I'd rather have a line-out than mic-in, don't care one bit about FM radio, etc.. Why not have a basic DAP, with good but simple features, like an Ipod without DRM?
7. Not DAP-related, but...more U.S. presence. If people outside of a Fry's knew that there was competition for iRiver...generally, those that don't want iRiver get Creative, PNY, or Sandisk, neither of which have the quality that iRiver offers, but they don't know that there are DAPs with similar and higher quality with similar features.
Well...
Have you seen the new Creative Zen Sleek Photo? It looks REALLY cool. Plus the fact that it plays DRM.......good battery....OLED good res screeen...good sound quality....
If i didn't see the X5 i'd probably get that. It looks alot cooler then the X5 (that says alot) But it's true, i think.
notguilty
10-15-2005, 12:34
Isn't it a HDD DAP? I use my I5's case now, because I had dropped it well (I am innately talented at this, you see) enough to throw the battery out. I have a very good reason not to want to touch a HDD DAP--I will kill the HDD. Meanwhile, my I5 has some scratches (I now use the case), but is otherwise fine.
Gapless playback is my biggest wishlist feature (I want to listen to albums, and be able to move through tracks, rather than having to choose one or the other); with pure UMSD functionality, decent SQ, solid-state, an adjustable EQ, and replaceable battery being absolute requirements. The rest would be nice, but gapless playback is the only feature that would make me think about selling my I5, right now.
For the next HD player:
a) use of perpindicular drives, or single platter - to make unit slim
b) better screen
c) integrate subpack into main unit
d) stay with drag + drop, no DRM mad software!
e) keep colour black
vidas7de7jesus7
10-17-2005, 16:35
"integrate subpack into main unit"
but then you wouldn't be able to use a dock unless they lined up all the little connectors on the bottom of the player, and for the dock, just had all the plugs lined up... nm.
i really thought what Cowon did with the subpack was rather innovative. They designed it so you could use standard cables (with the exception of the power pack) that you could pick up at, say wal-mart. now if they could jsut figure out a way to keep you from losing it... or they could just start selling individual cables, but those would probably get lost too. i know, just integrate wi-fi into it and screw the cables!! naaa, to expensive. just don't lose your subpack and you're good. maybe if you leave the usb and power cables plugged into the subpack, you wouldnt lose it. hafta try that.
i really thought what Cowon did with the subpack was rather innovative. They designed it so you could use standard cables ...
Innovative? I hope you are joking. Players like the iRiver H300 (and most other players) also use standard cables, but don't need that crappy piece of plastic to be fully functional.
As for the cradle, well, I'd rather have the in- and outputs on the player than the cradle...
(And, BTW, if you want separate cables: there's a user here in these forums that'll build them for you. Sorry, I forgot his nickname ATM.)
Konechiwa
10-19-2005, 19:26
no drm what's with you people.
I am going to say this one more time:
If you aren't going to use, then don't complain! seriously just don't use it. Many people use it (including me) and i need it. So cowon, if you want to keep me as a customer, then have everything do DRM.
If you don't like it, or hate drm, then just don't use it. simple as that.
notguilty
10-20-2005, 16:01
no drm what's with you people.
I am going to say this one more time:
If you aren't going to use, then don't complain! seriously just don't use it. Many people use it (including me) and i need it. So cowon, if you want to keep me as a customer, then have everything do DRM.
If you don't like it, or hate drm, then just don't use it. simple as that.iTunes = DRM.
Sony SonicStage and Sony Connect = DRM.
Both of those are very bad shackles on very good series of DAPs. Wanting to use music services was not part of the DRM that I saw (or that I stated) in this thread, and would not be a bad feature.
My first DAP was a CW200. I loved it, but dearly wanted three things:
1. ogg support
2. driverless transfer of files (for poor linux users like me)
3. gapless playback
Two down, one to go!
I don't understand why gapless playback is too difficult. Loads of customers want it, few DAP manufacturers support it. Madness!
On consecutive songs that you feel the need for gapless, simply re-rip them without the "gap". Problem solved!
a) continue resisting DRM
b) 'L' as standard
c) smaller frame, i.e use smaller HDs
d) larger screen
e) USBOTG with usb 2.0 speeds
f) insist UK webstores start off with cheap rpices from beginning instead of waiting for Apple before cutting the price
Pretty much the X5L meets all my needs...except for (some mentioned before):
- Good video playback. This includes higher framerate, more codecs supported and a bit larger screen. If not possible, then throw away the whole video playback thing and make the DAP $100 cheaper.
- Album art. Would be a nifty feature...
- No subpacks
- Option to choose for ID3tag browsing or Tree View
- Replacable battery
notguilty
10-23-2005, 19:43
On consecutive songs that you feel the need for gapless, simply re-rip them without the "gap". Problem solved!That does not invalidate the need for modern DAPs to have the same features as a $10 CD player. Why pay $200 and not get what a $10 product has?
I do transcode (not re-rip, that's stupid with HDDs so cheap now) gaplessly, but there is no reason for this not to be a standard feature. I should be able to listen to an album on my DAP without gaps, like those CDs, and still skip tracks.
Ripping and transcoding gaplessly is a hack solution for what has been in digital playback technology for more than 20 years.
That does not invalidate the need for modern DAPs to have the same features as a $10 CD player. Why pay $200 and not get what a $10 product has?
I do transcode (not re-rip, that's stupid with HDDs so cheap now) gaplessly, but there is no reason for this not to be a standard feature. I should be able to listen to an album on my DAP without gaps, like those CDs, and still skip tracks.
Ripping and transcoding gaplessly is a hack solution for what has been in digital playback technology for more than 20 years.
OK, never mind. I thought I could rip (aka encode) mp3 files without any pause at the end, but apparently that's only when burning CDs. Commence asking for gapless.
Yeah, gapless. :thumbsup: We want it.
(I still want firmware that isn't OS-specific. Check my post on page-1 of this topic for what I mean)
Person157
10-24-2005, 20:50
I think the X6 or whatever it'll be need an enqueue function. It'd be sooo useful and I hate having my songs cut off. It usually leads to them gettin stuck in my head.
proximal
10-26-2005, 16:51
I think I found a good solution: buy Sigmatel's 3600 HD reference design (http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=146091&p=irol-newsArticle&t=Regular&id=770337&), and don't change a thing. The entire Karma featureset is there, including format support, the best OTF capabilities, parametric eq, crossfeed (ask Austin about how awesome this feature is ;)), crossfade, and gapless. You also get:
- Drag and drop
- DRM (I think it's like the Carbon where you can set the file transfer mode)
- USB 2.0 host
- VFIR
- FM Tuner
- video support (MPEG4, H.264, WMV)
It's also supposed to be efficient, cheap, and compact.
wellVersed
10-31-2005, 13:36
anyone got ANY news on a follow up to the X5?
i know it's new but some companies are spitting out the updates like no one's business, so just seeing if anyone has any word on the x5's update...
i realize the M3 was out for a long time before the X5 came along, but maybe we can speed up the iteration cycle :winker:
wellVersed
10-31-2005, 13:39
might as well throw my 2 cents in...
have to bump up the screen real estate. to compete ya know? show who's really top dog cowon.
album art and music while photo browsing.
i love the idea of a true line-out subpack or not. so no complaints esp if it makes the device smaller. with a line out you'll be hooking it up to a larger device anyway so what's the extra bulk. unless you have speakers on your backpack or something, it shouldn't bother you.
let's lose a little weight x5+!
that's probably about it.
love the battery life.:rock:
Konechiwa
10-31-2005, 21:37
honestly, once again, i really stress the point about 30fps (25fps at least) and a 2.0" w/ good res.
let me explain before you rant and rant.
1) The iPod has it now, so almost all competitors will have to come out with some form of competition.
2) Since 30fps requires a much faster proccesor, album art, gapless (OGG gapless!), boot up time will all be much better.
3) Pictures! A nice res screen looks great with pics! 2.0 or even 2.2 inches is awesome!
4) It just looks cooler
5) Some people are complaining about games. Proc=games. (if they make them).
well thats about it. Small is in. If you could make it as thin (or close to) the ipod...phew that would rock.
have to bump up the screen real estate. to compete ya know? show who's really top dog cowon.
[...]
love the battery life.
You can't have one with the other. ;)
one point that keeps coming up as a positive for apple is that that they have seemless integration with itunes, now I much prefere Drag & Drop but to attract the laypeople, cowon should make a competant, easy but also asthetically pleasing program much like itunes that could be used with the next player. But, make it optional.
wellVersed
11-01-2005, 08:10
Right now the X5 rocks a 1.8" screen with 14 hours battery life and the X5L does 35 hours battery life.
The new iPod is really thin, but they sacrificed some battery life. How awesome would it have been if they hadn't sacrificed all that depth... pretty much like an iPodL... if they had made the current 30gigger as thick as the current 60gigger... (still thinner than the gen 4 20 gigger mind you, okay i'm going to stop saying gigger, i'm annoying myself)... it would have had like 20+ hours of battery life, since the current 60GB is rated at 20hrs.
Applying the same principle to the next gen X5... compromising somewhere in between the X5 and the X5L with some technological miniaturization... I'm thinking they could rock something .6" or thinner with a 2.5" screen (no "color sound" slogan) and 20 hours of battery life... the more the better actually. even if the thing was .8" (no hump for the lcd... just make it all the same depth) and had even more battery life... i'd be in.
MOST for the money... that's usually what cowon has been about... and they can put the new iPod to shame if they snapped their fingers and told their engineers to get on it...
unless they already are... if so, someone please tell me. :woh:
Well, Cowon always did put the iPod to shame, they don't have to do much to achieve that, IMO. The iAudio players are not crippled in any way, so there's a clear advantage compared to Apple's DRM-nightmare.
And Cowon learns from their mistakes - no more "Color Sound"-crap on the new U3, for example.
And with perpendicular HDDs the size will stay convenient, too, while the capacity grows... so bye bye iPod, for good. If only more people would be intelligent enough to compare specs, we wouldn't be talking about iPods, anyways...
I would first like to say that overall, the X5 is a wonderful player, and the two things I love most about it is the build quality and the flexibility - it supports so many formats!
I bought an X5L a week and a half ago, though, and I am almost considering returning it because of all of the minor 'things' that bug me about it.
I've written a small list and discussion of some of the features I would like to see in the player that comes after the X5, as well as some bugs that I would like fixed in the current player.
First, the little joystick drives me nuts. It takes too long to scroll through the menu lists (and the delay before it autoscrolls is too long), especially when there are a large number of items in the list. Make the joystick easier to click up and down, and make the top of the joystick more 'grippy', as the pad of my thumb tends to slide around, making it harder to operate.
Alternatively, you could switch to a eraser-style proportional joystick, such as is used in IBM notebooks. (I think Synaptics makes these, and calls them TouchSticks or something similar). With a TouchStick, scrolling though a large list of songs would be almost as easy as it is with the iPod, without the added hassle of having to coordinate your finger movement. (In fact, it could even be set up so that running your thumb in a circle could scroll).
What I am getting at here is the perception of responsiveness. My X5 gives me the impression of being 'slow' when I use it, partly because of the number of times I have to move the joystick when I am navigating a directory structure, partly due to the lack of gapless playback -- when playing an MP3, it takes the iAudio approx 3 secs to buffer in the next song so that I can skip to it without seeing the hourglass.
Make startup times and file loading times *much* shorter. Its a good thing. Especially when beginning a large movie.
More playlisting support. The D-Playlist sucks, plain and simple. A 200 entry limit on the *ONLY* playlist I can create while using the awesome 35 Hour battery life is simply unacceptable. Also, multiple dynamic playlists would be nice - even a set limit of 5 (that could be named).
Support ID3 organizing and playlist creation too, please.
I don't think that PlaysForSure support is all that important, but thats just me.
Textfile reading - I love being able to read textfiles on the X5, but I have some gripes. First, I have to leave the textfile to control any audio functions, and then navigate all the way back to that text file (On average, about 5 clicks of the joystick, but it gets old REALLY fast) An alternative might be to have a context button to switch between the two.
The next gripe I believe is a bug - I can only view about 5500 lines of text in any one text file (It looks like its a 128kb limit -- I have text files that are well over 1MB), yet the GUI lets me enter any line number up to 99,999. I sure would like to be able to read the WHOLE book.
Also, a function for removing excess whitespace in the textfile would be nice, so that screen space isn't wasted when a textfile that wraps at 80 characters is displayed on a 28 character-wide screen.
Photo Support and OTG - I find this function pretty much unusable. My camera is 8MP, and it takes quite a while to transfer 6 images (~3MB each) to the X5 from the camera (takes about 30secs from camera->computer over USB 2.0). The transfer either stopped or crashed partway through the 6th picture (I had actually told the X5 to transfer about 30 pics). About 4 of the six pictures would not load or decode in the picture viewer, and of course it took far too long to display the ones that did show up -- I noticed that the X5 seemed to cache the decoded picture, however, so that after an initial wait, zooming was (relatively) quick.
With such a small screen, the X5 is rather useless for displaying pictures, even if the display was a bit larger and clearer. TV-out is an absolute necessity for the next player iAudio makes. The player should be able to display pictures on the television (and play music at the same time). A slideshow function would be nice as well. (extra points for transitions). It goes without saying that being able to context switch between the pictures and audio control would again be important.
Having the ability to output pictures to the TV also means that the videos should output, as well. I agree with previous comments about video functionality - at least match the iPod's function of 30fps and 320x240 (or tv res).
Back to textfiles and playlists - The iAudio starts my song at the same position as where it left off playing when I shut it down... except for when it is plugged into the USB port, and then it not only loses the position, but also the song (jumps out of the d-playlist, in fact). Same with textfiles - when I turn off the player, the line position is lost. Keeping the position for each textfile would be much more preferrable.
Radio - not sure if the chip set you are/will be using supports radio text, but it would be nice to get radio textual information from broadcasting stations, similar to many newer car radios.
Also, why can't I view textfiles or pictures while listening to the radio
Voice Record and Line in Record - Bring up a menu that gives the option of playing or deleting a recorded file in the recorded file menu. Also, a quick way of changing recording setings would be nice, but not essential.
Physical Design - I thought (and still suspect) that the charging LED at the top of the player is a button. Might want to clear that up (looks nice, but having the whole silvered part as one peice would be nice).
Combine the USB and USB OTG ports into one. I noticed that both the OTG adapter cable and the USB-miniB connector fit into the OTG port on the player... It would be great to have USB 2.0 on the OTG port, as well. Also, being able to use the player while it is connected over USB would be nice.
Those are just a few suggestions and thoughts I had.
Ben
wellVersed
11-03-2005, 11:53
no one has anything to say after that novella. dang ben you killed the thread.
I'd only say nicer screen
Will find out about OTG complaints when I get one soon and try with putting vids to/from my PSP
Konechiwa
11-03-2005, 17:59
slimmer
nice screen (good res)
better processor (movies, pictures, album art, slideshows, alot of stuff fits in this category)
I'd say no more hump. It doesn't have to be AS thin as the iPod, just maybe the regular X5 size (.57 inches or a little less) with no hump, so its that thin all the way across.
When did the X5 come out, October 2004? I think Cowon is probably just beginning on a new HDD player i would imagine. Since the Original X5 buyers are just done on their warranty (if it was october) then they should be making another one soon i bet. Maybe in like 6 months or so.
Need 4+GB iAudio G3 that uses non-OS-specific firmware.
I already said that? OK, well I don't know what else to ask for.
I was thinking of waiting for an X5 replacement, but thought it'd be next summer at the earliest. Anyway, due to mp3players.co.uk having 10% off, I'm just gonna get an X5L and see what all the blind, liberally lavished praise on this forum is all about. lol
Konechiwa
11-05-2005, 18:46
next summer sounds about right. Keep my X5 for about a year and a half. Then I'll be set!
I was thinking of waiting for an X5 replacement, but thought it'd be next summer at the earliest. Anyway, due to mp3players.co.uk having 10% off, I'm just gonna get an X5L and see what all the blind, liberally lavished praise on this forum is all about. lol
Well, it's the least crap you can get at the moment... let me rephrase that: it's the best you can get at the moment.
dfkt, have you heard the UE Pro's? I'm worrying that the EBs might be too much in the bass
I ask, as some state the X5 to be a "bright" player
Keyser Szose
11-06-2005, 12:46
Just got an X5L last month, I was using an old Archos Jukebox 10gb for all mp3, can't get over the build quality of the X5, superb, leaving aside bugs such as ID3, playlists etc, a few of the things I'd like to see are.
1. Bluetooth incorporated, I have a Bluetooth stereo headset and they rock, no cables = joy.
2. Wireless remote control, credit card sized, if they can make them for CD players, they can make it for the X5.
3. A top mounted earphone outlet, so that when it's in your shirt pocket, it dun tangle.
4. Built in FM transmitter ( if they can't do the 'tooth ), for easy use in the car.
5. Video out.
Not too much to ask....huh?
Do you realize how bad Bluetooth- and FM-transmitted audio sounds? No thanks, I'm gonna stick with cables...
Keyser Szose
11-07-2005, 15:46
Well.....I guess not....as I only use it every day....duh...!
notguilty
11-07-2005, 16:22
What bandwidth does it take up? Bluetooth should have enough for 44.1/16 (which does not mean anything uses that...), but I can't google up what headsets and headphones typically use.
An FM transmitter would be a bad idea. Dedicated ones are hard enough to get right. Connecting the player to an input on the stereo would be simpler and better (if you could stick the transmitter outside of the car, it would be much better, of course).
P.S. from AT?
Well.....I guess not....as I only use it every day....duh...!
So you know how bad it sounds - alright, good luck with being cool & wireless :winker:
What bandwidth does it take up? Bluetooth should have enough for 44.1/16 (which does not mean anything uses that...), but I can't google up what headsets and headphones typically use.
Well, all the spec-sheets tell the same baloney as all bad headphones: 20-20000Hz, etc...
As far as I've found out Bluetooth-cans transfer mostly in the 1 Mbps-range (which wouldn't be enough for 44,1kHz 16 bit stereo).
notguilty
11-07-2005, 17:30
Bluetooth is spec'd for 1.5mpbs, which actually should be enough for 44.1/16, around 150kbps. However, how realistic that is, and how well it's implemented is another issue (it's also fairly likely they might choose a poor format for transfer). At <1mbps, though, you'd need a good bit of CPU power to handle compression and decompression for just about any 'transparent' audio, lossless or lossy. It's probably not coincedence that this info can't readily be found in the marketting specs (but now my curiosity is driving my Googling for it...:)).
I guess Bluetooth stuff like this really needs to be able to use multiple channels.
Keyser Szose
11-08-2005, 05:56
Well obviously in the face of your overwhelming technical and intellectual superiority I may have to concede that perhaps you're right and I'm wrong....however I think I'll stick to my tried and tested method of letting my ears do the evaluation....same as I do when I buy a/v equipment.....and my judgement hasn't let me down so far...hence the reason I'm posting here...rather than an iPOD forum...!
I'm not a numbers guy.......numbers mean nothing to me other than the numbers i have in the bank........as far as I know it uses an elastic band for it's width........I have a set of Motorala HT820 Bluetooth phones...with which I listen to MP3's and other stuff via my PC and use with my V3.....I also use them linked to MS Outlook for making voice calls....and they work just fine....they might not work fine for DAP's at present..............it wasn't that long ago....everyone was clamouring for bigger drives and better hardware / software in DAP's......now we have them.....perhaps the same might ring true for the ability to implement BT in future DAPS.....or would you just rather the manufacturer didn't bother it's ass.
Thank you for expressed good wishes.......but luck plays no part in the equation.
I tested the Creative, Logitech and HP Bluetooth-headphones... and they sounded like sh*t... I wasn't going by specs, I really tried those abominations. :( (The Logitech might have sounded so utterly terrible because they were attached to an iPod. :winker: )
Keyser Szose
11-08-2005, 12:26
Well I can't speak for any of those....never tested any of them.....but having gone thru' 30 years of audio kit...from Quad valve amps in the 60's to Amcron in the 70's....Carver and Accuphase in the 80's.....and Krell / Threshold / McIntosh / Mark Levinson to date...plus myriad bi-wired bi-amped speaker / turntable cartridge combos....believe me I have no great expectations from MP3 / Ogg or any other compressed format......I use every facility that's available on the X5..voice recorder.....FM radio....( tho' radio is shit here in Bangkok ).....but primarily storing photos....but with the added benefit of listening to easily portable music at a reasonable level.....besides which I like the benefit of being able to fart in public without feeling embarrassed.....I work on the principle of..."if I can't hear it...no-one else can'.....and if someone draws me a look....I simply shrug and mouth .."what".....!!!
All of which doesn't detract from the fact that the X5 is a great little beastie for the bread......I march to the beat of a different drum and couldn't / wouldn't envisage being an Apple drone......'nuff said.....now it's late and I have to go learn about all this codec stuff....sorry...!
BTW...A2 on order....anyone wannna buy an X5......just kiddin'....not selling the X5....!
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