View Full Version : High-end earphones for X5... WAIT, earphones WITH BASS!?
saiyanja
08-21-2005, 00:12
I've researched for quite a while now on the most favored earphones and canalphones for high quality sound reproduction and isolation, or basically headphones fitting for a high-quality device like the X5...(mine is on its way >_< ). but I became disappointed when I started looking into 'phones like the Shure series, Er6 and so and kept seeing the same complaints over and over again.. weak on the low end!! Now, while that may be acceptable to some people.. I love my bass. I mean, I'm sorry but I actually found the Koss Plug's enjoyable for a while =\.. Now I ask this, please help me find some good earphones/canalphones that will deliver quality bass for bassheads like me... Thanks in advance.
I think the reason that the people wern't getting bass is they didn't have a correct seal. Actually I'm looking into high-end canal phones and I'm concerned about the same thing.
saiyanja
08-21-2005, 01:06
That could be true in some cases, but the frequency of the bass complaint is way too high for that to be the problem, I believe.. I'm convinced from many..many reviews that the Shures and Etymotic canalphones aren't the ones I'm looking for.. Now I am looking, and looking hard, into the Ultimate Ear Super.fi 5 EBs or Pros.. the only thing now is to decide which one.
If anyone knows about these UE products or has any more suggestions please comment.
What's the exact product name?
saiyanja
08-21-2005, 01:31
Ultimate Ears Super.fi 5 EB Earphones
or
Ultimate Ears Super.fi 5 Pro Earphones
Okay. I don't know anything but.......... if you want bass I would get the EBs. The "EB" stands for "Extended Bass".
Here: http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=201663438&SearchEngine=Shopper&SearchTerm=201663438&Type=PE&Category=Comp&Gad=0&dcaid=15889
I know what I'm getting. Thanks for mentioning the product name.
saiyanja
08-21-2005, 01:42
Heh, no problem.. Yeah I just stumbled across these and am very intrigued/excited as well. The only problem is I'm still torn between the EBs and the Pros, because its possible the Pros still have basshead-wortyh bass response.. but with higher quality sound. Now I'll pay an extra 50 dollars for that.. I just need an opinion!
Alpha-Leader
08-21-2005, 01:47
I jsut bought some Sony EX51s and the bass is awesome.
saiyanja
08-21-2005, 02:03
I already have some Sony EX71s, in fact I'm using them right now.. but Ultimate Ear is a step up from Sony's earphones, my friend.. in bass, quality, reputation, hype lol, price, isolation, reproduction, everything... My EX71s will be my backup.. I'm going for high-end 'phones now.
(At least mid-end from a high-end company? =T)
Government Man
08-21-2005, 04:14
Huh? Didn't you try the Shure e5cs? I don't see how those could be perceived as lacking bass.
As for the UE products, I have not heard them, but both the Pro and the EB are reputed to have excellent bass response (quantity and quality).
Erasure4ever
08-21-2005, 07:22
The E4Cs have better bass than the E3Cs through the use of a bass port.
saiyanja
08-21-2005, 09:00
Aren't yhe e5cs highly expensive? Anyways, I'm pretty set on these UE products, you're right they are reputed quite well to have great bass.. I just wanna know how much on the Pro..
Men, Don't know what to do: A friend of mine will buy the e3c's for me, but now I've heard the "terrible" stories about basslacking I'm in doubt, maybe I must spend more so that I have a good bass, but I'm already $40 above my budget. So guess I just let him buy the shures, 'cause bass is for me less important then mid- and highrange.
________
SUZUKI GSX SERIES SPECIFICATIONS (http://www.suzuki-tech.com/wiki/Suzuki_GSX_series)
Konechiwa
08-21-2005, 11:24
Ultimate ears are the top headphones in the world. Their UE-10 are the best you can buy, but they are 1,000 bucks. I suspect that the super.fi 5Eb and 5Pro will be better then all the shure line except the E5c because they have dual drivers, one for bass, one for treble and mid. You can't go wrong with ultimate ears.
saiyanja
08-21-2005, 12:35
Ok but I still haven't gotten an answer.. 5EB or 5Pro.. I want better bass than say Sony EX71s.. and good quality sound.
Konechiwa
08-21-2005, 14:32
Well, if you want bass, bass and more bass, then go with the 5EB's. the 5Pro's will probably give you better dB, probably about 120dB or somewhere, but the 5EB's are 200 bucks, so you should expect them to sound really good too. If you want bass, go with the 5Eb's. If you have an x5, go for the black ones.
I have an x5. Should I get the pros or the ebs? I listen to alot of metal and I do want good bass, but not overpowering.
Konechiwa
08-21-2005, 16:37
the pros.
So for metal the pros will give me good bass but not too much? I don't want to spend $200+ on something and not be happy with it.
Konechiwa
08-21-2005, 19:24
i don't own them, and haven't seen any reviews, but the fact that they are the top of the line model of the best headphone company in the world should give you insurance, shouldn't it?
saiyanja
08-21-2005, 22:54
Hehe, yes it should... but I'm still contemplating my decision! I'm afraid that while the 5Pros will undoubtedly sound good to me, that they might lack bass and I'll end up kicking myself and wishing I had gotten the EBs =\.. I wish a user would come along and tell me that the 5Pros have more bass than any canalphone he/she has ever heard besides the EBs.. or a comment along those lines =D
Government Man
08-22-2005, 04:23
Haha. Go on head-fi. There are quite a few users who've reviewed the Pros.
All of them agree that the Pros are definitely bass-heavy earphones.
The Pros are generally liked.
The EB, on the other hand, does not come highly recommended, with most users declaiming it as an earphone for those who want bass at the expense of everything else on the frequency curve.
http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=133296
saiyanja
08-22-2005, 10:03
Thanks Government Man, I think I'm gonna go ahead and go with the Pros ^_^. Now to find it at the best price.... any leads?
Konechiwa
08-22-2005, 10:05
they just came out. i think amazon has them 10 bucks off.
eCost used to have them for $196. Now they're $250.
http://www.ecost.com/ecost/ecce/shop/detail~dpno~571790.asp
Konechiwa
08-22-2005, 18:30
its one of their deals. wait about 2 weeks and it will be on sale again.
spaztastic116
08-23-2005, 14:40
if someone reading this wants more detail and subtle bass, then the etymotics er6i are a good buy. i have them and they sound great with no eq adjustments. if you find that they lack bass, you can always change the eq..i suppose. although you will be distorting the sound.
saiyanja
08-25-2005, 22:35
I ordered my Pros from Amazon the other day =D, can't wait till they get here... I compared both Amazon and Gateway totals after tax (Amazon doesn't even charge tax) and expedited shipping with both... Amazon had a faster e.t.a. AND a cheaper total: $207...
Note: Amazon Marketplace seller, not directly from Amazon
jinnoicated
08-26-2005, 09:46
lol you guys really have loads of cash to blow on high end audio equipment. i got myself a sony EX71SL. theyre pretty bassy and more than decent for me yep. im still studying, which means i have NO INCOME. bleh haha
Konechiwa
08-26-2005, 11:05
its easier for me because i have jobs on the side.
Bull Moose
08-26-2005, 11:10
I have a question about the UE Super Fi 5 pros. Right now I have a pair of Shure e2c's which are great, but if i have left over money at the end of my year at college, I was thinking of investing in the UE's. My question is will there be a NOTICABLE sound difference? I just need to know before I go and pay more than double what my shures cost. Thanks!
Konechiwa
08-26-2005, 11:37
http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?s=5c464cc9046ee486a96793c7f77c1bea&t=134115
this should help. it compares the E2c vs. 34c vs. 5pros.
Machiavelli
09-25-2005, 05:32
Hi! Anyone interested in buying UE Super Fi 5 EB? I could make a "buy at once" - option on ebay or send it after payment via paypal. They are used for one week and seem to be quite new. I'm from Germany- proud owner of a X5 30 GB and Koss Porta Pro.
Government Man
09-27-2005, 04:02
Oh whoa, Saiyanja. Could you give us a link to this seller?
Dunno whether this will help, but the Sennheiser HD25-1 headphones that I use has been noticeably more useful to me than a pair of in-ears for commuting. It's easier to take off / put on and the sound is punchier than almost all in-ears can manage, while the quality is pretty clear. True, for a headphone it's overpriced but the sound for the buck is still better than IEM's. The isolation is roughly comparable to an in-ear with the triple flange tips. You can also just throw it into a bag without worrying about whether it gets damaged or not, and wear it fairly comfortably around the neck when not in immediate use. Also, the HD25-1 has a 70 ohm impedance and as such gets around the 'bass fall-off' that the X5 has (which neither Mach3bass nor EQ cures on a low-impedance phone).
Government Man
09-28-2005, 05:29
Good to know. What canalphones do you own or have done extensive listening on, though?
Etymotic: 6i, 4s, 4p
Shure: 2,3,4,5
UE: 10
Government Man
09-28-2005, 08:16
DoOd!1!!
All those and you still prefer the hd-25s for usability?
I think it's time I made a little detour to the land of Senn. :D
For me, certainly. When flying, IEM's for sure. But for everyday use and commuting, I just got fed up of taking comparatively ages to put the earpieces back in, not to mention worry where they go when I have to remove them temporarily. Also if you think about it, the hands that you're using to stuff the earpieces back into your infection-sensitive ear canals have just been brushing against subway door buttons, handrails... you get the idea.
The HD25-1 can be ripped off in half a second and put back on in 2 maximum. It rests on the neck when not in use. It's punchy (moreso than the vast majority of IEMs) and the clarity of the sound is decent despite the humped bass. Soundstage is narrow for a headphone, but in comparison with IEM's it actually has a soundstage. It provides isolation comparable to triple-flange tips as I said, but it does lag behind foamies and customs... anyway, it's usable even in very high ambient noise environments. The combination of high efficiency and higher impedance means that it works very well with single-supply headphone amps which exhibit a bass falloff with low-impedance phones (X5 included).
It's not a perfect world in headphoneland either though... It's necessarily hotter than an IEM because it has to seal against your ear. There are also pressure issues which don't bother me but may bother others. The steel cable is relatively low-grade sound-wise but nearly indestructible. An upgrade OFC cable is available, but since it is long and terminated in a 6.5mm jack, you'll have to do some trimming and re-termination. I'm pretty happy with the stock cable purely because it's so robust, but I know it can improve.
Be careful with reviews. A lot of people think accurate sound that doesn't add bass is "weak on the low end". There are nutcases that think Sennheiser HD650s are weak!
I've got a pair of HD280's and love them.
Russj1975
10-22-2005, 04:07
I suspect that the super.fi 5Eb and 5Pro will be better then all the shure line except the E5c because they have dual drivers, one for bass, one for treble and mid.
Dont get sucked into the "technology means quality" trap, headphones that have twin drivers are not automatically going to sound better. The driver in a headphone is so small, and therefore light, that is can easily cover the full frequency range.
I remember reading reviews on audionote hifi equipment, renowned for producing some of the best hifi in the world, their loudspeakers frequently demolished the competition in listening tests, yet their speakers used paper cones, old fashioned technology. Audionote had the sense to see that paper was the best material for a loudspeaker drive unit, which they exploited to produce some of the best loudspeakers in the world.
With canal phones, its important to get a good seal - with shure's range the earphones come with different sized ear peices to make sure you get a good seal, otherwise the bass response suffers. Better still are the foam sleves which you compress with your fingers then after fitting they expand fitting your ear perfectly and forming a good seal.
if you cant get even the best canal phones to fit properly, they are going to sound sh**e how ever much they cost.
If you don't care whether they're in-ear's or not, I'd get the Sony D66's (the infamous Eggo's). I have a pair of them and they're very bass-y out of the box, and even more bass-y with a certain, easy mod done. They're $99 with shipping direct from Japan.
www.audiocubes.com has them.
Dont get sucked into the "technology means quality" trap, headphones that have twin drivers are not automatically going to sound better. The driver in a headphone is so small, and therefore light, that is can easily cover the full frequency range.
I remember reading reviews on audionote hifi equipment, renowned for producing some of the best hifi in the world, their loudspeakers frequently demolished the competition in listening tests, yet their speakers used paper cones, old fashioned technology. Audionote had the sense to see that paper was the best material for a loudspeaker drive unit, which they exploited to produce some of the best loudspeakers in the world.
With canal phones, its important to get a good seal - with shure's range the earphones come with different sized ear peices to make sure you get a good seal, otherwise the bass response suffers. Better still are the foam sleves which you compress with your fingers then after fitting they expand fitting your ear perfectly and forming a good seal.
if you cant get even the best canal phones to fit properly, they are going to sound sh**e how ever much they cost.
Flawed argument.
No single-driver balanced armature phone I've listened to (and I've listened to a fair number) have successfully managed a balanced full-regular-audible-range reproduction. The Etymotic ER-4P is possibly the best in this regard, but it's still tinny and insubstantial when compared to with a decent headphone of the same price range. Balanced armature drivers work differently from dynamic drivers and they have a necessarily harder time addressing the full frequency range in a convincing way.
I currently have an Ultimate Ears UE-10Pro which I consider the worst $900 headphone I've ever bought in terms of overall sonic capability. However due to it's triple drivers it manages a balanced reproduction that is the closest thing to a decent $300 headphone that I've heard out of an IEM.
Russj1975
10-23-2005, 06:17
the point i was trying to make was that just because something has "better technology" doesn't automatically mean it will sound better. Valve amps vs solid state being a similar argument, or even vinyl vs cd.
If you are seeking the very best "audiophile" sound quality then its pretty daft to go out and buy a dap and expect it to sound world class! Yes they can sound great, but is it really worth spending $1000 on a set of headphones to listen to the audio equivalent of jpeg? the body of the music may be there, but lets face it - all the nuances and subtelties of the music are lost forever after conversion.
OK, once again:
Best bass ever: Ultimate Ears Super.Fi 5 EB - check the link in my signature.
Also good: Super.Fi 5 Pro, Shure E5c
Bad audio quality, boomy, washed out: all Sony IEMs, and all other stuff below $100 (sorry, but it's the truth)
No bass at all: all Etymotics IEMs (even the "extended bass" model)
For further questions check the http://head-fi.org/ forum.
the point i was trying to make was that just because something has "better technology" doesn't automatically mean it will sound better. Valve amps vs solid state being a similar argument, or even vinyl vs cd.
If you are seeking the very best "audiophile" sound quality then its pretty daft to go out and buy a dap and expect it to sound world class! Yes they can sound great, but is it really worth spending $1000 on a set of headphones to listen to the audio equivalent of jpeg? the body of the music may be there, but lets face it - all the nuances and subtelties of the music are lost forever after conversion.
Are you saying this out of actual experience? Sure, you don't get the full sound but the tradeoff is surprisingly small with even the best of kit. The difference in what you hear between a superior front end and high-bitrate MP3 vs an inferior front-end + FLAC is profoundly in favour of the former. I can certainly tell you that I prefer listening to 320K MP3's on my Orpheus than FLACs/WAVs on an E3c. High-bitrate MP3's are definitely an acceptable compromise for semi/fully portable use. The Sony Qualia 010 (http://www.audiocubes.com/category/Headphones_Audiophile/product/Sony_Qualia_Q010-MDR1_Stereo_Headphones.html) is the only headphone I've ever had on which I've been able to reliably say "that's compressed audio" just by what I hear (mixing up ALAC/FLAC and MP3) while not directly referencing the original CD. Which is in fact rather ironic as the 010 is my main semiportable headphone. Even then, it's still an acceptable compromise.
The point you made was made viz-a-viz dual-driver vs single-driver balanced armature earphones and that in conjunction with new tech vs old. My previous post has nothing to do with new tech vs old but correcting a piece of conjecture which was as I said a flawed argument.
Russj1975
10-25-2005, 15:23
Are you saying this out of actual experience?
Yes, is the answer. I've been a listener of high end audio for about 15 years. By that, i mean various systems put together over the years from components of different manufacturers, through rigorous listening to reach a balanced sound with each component working together.
Not that that has much to do with DAP's and headphones.
The original post i replied to, that a certain model of earbud would sound better purely BECAUSE they had twin drivers, and not for any other reason, is similar to people visiting my house and saying their system will sound better than mine because they have floorstanding speakers with 3 drivers in each cabinet and bass reflex ports, and their amp has a graphic equaliser and an lcd display while mine looks like something out of the ark! When they actually hear my modern but "stripped down" equipment they soon realise it isnt all about having a better specification or more power, etc, and what i have certainly isn't the best sounding system in the world!
I was not implying that those earbuds were no good as I have indeed had the pleasure of listening to some "high end" twin driver earbuds, but i have also heard conventional high quality earbuds which were their equal, if not better. The monstrous difference in price between them and what i have presently could not be justified considering the relatively small difference in sonic ability. I would rather spend a fraction of the cost for some open, conventional headphones with their flawed single drive units..
By experience, I was clearly not referring to the kit you've had over the years but actually comparing high-bitrate compressed and uncompressed audio in-depth on mid-to-high-end sytems, and by using higher-end headphones on portable systems with the same data vs low-end phones.
As I said, multiple-driver balanced armature phones sound better than single-driver versions primarily because the overall frequency response is less unbalanced when compared to single-driver earphones. They work in a different way to dynamic head/earphone drivers which does seem to practically limit their optimal frequency range in comparison with dynamics. That is the flaw in your original post. Is there an increase in resolution commensurate to the cost? No. With IEM's you reach the quality barrier far sooner while the cost goes up by a disproportionate amount as I pointed out, but quite apart from that there is nevertheless an improvement in the sound by the use of multiple drivers in IEMs.
Apart from that, very good headphones will still deliver better music into your ear with higher-bitrate compressed audio than a pair of inferior ones. And isolated earphones will deliver more of that musical information into your perception in a portable situation than the non-isolated variety. It's good to know that there are fellow true audio enthusiasts about but we don't really have to go off-track into each other's audiophile credentials especially when the points are pretty cut and dried.
Russj1975
10-26-2005, 14:33
at least i know where to come for a healthy discusion!
By the way, your x5 portable rig looks impressive Spago. Separate headphone stage - the sign of a true enthusiast if ever there was one. I was looking at one today in my local hi-fi shop, but decided to leave that on e for another day.
thanks to the curse that is head-fi forum, I'm now saving up either for Shure e4c's or Ultimate Ears Super.Fi 5Pro's
...Also, the HD25-1 has a 70 ohm impedance and as such gets around the 'bass fall-off' that the X5 has (which neither Mach3bass nor EQ cures on a low-impedance phone).
Forgive me if this is a silly question but what is this bass fall-off exactly and why does a 70 ohm impedance take care of it?
notguilty
11-03-2005, 11:46
Exactly why it takes care of it, I'm not sure. It has to do with capacitors in the way screwing up the signal.
However, if you look at a frequency response graph of most any DAP but the Ipod Shuffle (maybe 5G, too), there is a significant lack of bass and treble (but the treble part is way too high to hear the rolloff clearly). That is, with a low-impedance headphone. Stick a 50+ Ohm can in there, and is near flat.
Forgive me if this is a silly question but what is this bass fall-off exactly and why does a 70 ohm impedance take care of it?
In certain types of audio circuits (i.e. that used by the iPod, X5 and some of the highest-rated of the old Discmen), a capacitor is used to block voltage that would, hmmm... how can I put it simply, 'leak' elsewhere.
The detrimental action of this capacitor on the circuit is to limit the bass response depending on it's size. The smaller the capacitor, the bigger the bass loss. However, the other component is the load impedance (i.e. the impedance of whatever cans you're plugging in). The lower the load impedance, the more unadulterated the effect of the capacitor is. The audio designers have to balance the size of the capacitors when shoehorning them into a tightly-packed machine against how they would behave with the shipped earphones.
The latest iPods and the X5 suffer from some loss of bass with low-impedance phones, but the higher the load impedance, the less the bass loss will be. ~60 ohms is the sweet spot, because the inbuilt amps can power a 60-ohm phone of reasonable efficiency without problems, and you'll get a near-flat response to all intents and purposes.
vBulletin® v3.8.7, Copyright ©2000-2013, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.