View Full Version : Flash Upgrade
When do you think Cowon will update the flash engine to Flash 8+?
The processor is powerful enough....
TheDarkSide
08-02-2009, 12:54
I don't think they will. I wish they WOULD, but it's doubtful IMO.
Acreo Aeneas
08-02-2009, 13:26
Maybe they will the next one. Though, what are the specs of the dual-core CPU?
I'm pretty sure its a 500MHz dual core processor
On windows, system requirements for flash 8: Intel Pentium II 450MHz or faster processor (or equivalent), 128 MB RAM
same requirements for flash 9.
Flash 10 needs a 600MHz processor, so flash 9 seems to be the limit.
Im sure it would run on lower specs due to there not being any other 'processes' or 'services' running :)
hopefully it will be next firmware update as there seems to be a Cowon Rep on here reading our opinions, so please Cowon, upgrade to flash 8 or 9, we would much appreciate it and would allow us to create better UCI's! :(
Dan
XXL-Music
08-02-2009, 15:45
Be realistic, it just won't happen.
4DThinker
08-02-2009, 16:05
Be realistic, it just won't happen.
True. Neither will Gapless playback. ;)
XXL-Music
08-02-2009, 17:08
True. Neither will Gapless playback. ;)
Sure, it'll happen. And then you'll get a free unicorn with every purchase.
Gapless playback is here because of a lot of users requested it. So they implemented it after 3 years or so. So the chance of it happening with this model...? Slim.
Nirvana1000
08-02-2009, 17:52
True. Neither will Gapless playback. ;)
Gapless playback in MP3 files. S9 Firmware 2.31 Beta2
1. MP3 Gapless playback is the uninterrupted playback of consecutive audio tracks without intervening
silence sections in front and end of files that are created while compressing mp3 files.
2. COWON S9 supports gapless playback in MP3 files that are converted by LAME MP3 encoder such as
type of plugins.
3. Gapless playback won't be supported, if original audio file contains silence part in front and end before
converting MP3 files.
gleipnir
08-02-2009, 18:02
It's sort of hard to tell...so "other" :P It might be the next update, the one after that, or even the one after that...
number5toad
08-02-2009, 18:06
if I had to guess, I'd say the next full release will focus on making gapless playback and m3u support more stable across the board - I suspect we'll get one more beta release first, but I could be wrong about that
I'd love to see a newer version of Flash as the next major upgrade, but I'm not holding my breath. of course, it does seem that Cowon paid very close attention to how much their customers wanted gapless playback on the S9, so...I guess we just need to be loud about it!
Had to say never... while the gapless was a surprise, I've dealt with Cowon long enough to only expect disappointment when it comes to in-player upgrades. They'll come out with a new model before they update this
I'm pretty sure its a 500MHz dual core processor
On windows, system requirements for flash 8: Intel Pentium II 450MHz or faster processor (or equivalent), 128 MB RAM
same requirements for flash 9.
Flash 10 needs a 600MHz processor, so flash 9 seems to be the limit.
Flash 8,9 and 10 don't run on non-desktop devices. S9 would need Flash Lite for an upgrade http://www.adobe.com/products/flashlite/
da1writer
08-02-2009, 18:59
Never say never, I said the Cowon S9 would never have gapless because their other devices didn't have it. Everyone remembers the threads of me saying this multiple times and I eventually ate crow because as Danneh has mentioned, there IS a rep reading at least this portion of the forum (S9) often.
Cowon's main websites (Korea, Japan, and US) have the iaudiophile.net link on their websites.
As the saying goes, if enough whine and ask for something, eventually it is given. Maybe not immediately, maybe not tomorrow, or next week, but you can't count out further down the road at a later time...
Flash 8,9 and 10 don't run on non-desktop devices. S9 would need Flash Lite for an upgrade http://www.adobe.com/products/flashlite/
Not... entirely true, I know where your going with this but Flash 7 works on the Cowon S9 and that's the version being used on the Cowon S9- confirmed by Claw and other Devs...
Flash 8,9 and 10 don't run on non-desktop devices. S9 would need Flash Lite for an upgrade http://www.adobe.com/products/flashlite/
Not true, i have Flash 9 on my 605, it doesnt seem to be full flash but its not that flash lite stuff.
XXL-Music
08-02-2009, 19:30
True. Neither will Gapless playback. ;)
proof of gapless
LOL, did you miss the ;)??
^haha i think he just might have :D
Acreo Aeneas
08-02-2009, 20:12
I'm pretty sure its a 500MHz dual core processor
On windows, system requirements for flash 8: Intel Pentium II 450MHz or faster processor (or equivalent), 128 MB RAM
same requirements for flash 9.
Flash 10 needs a 600MHz processor, so flash 9 seems to be the limit.
Okay, so it's a 500 Mhz dual-core. What's the cache sizes on the CPU? Does the S9 even have onboard RAM or does it use the NAND flash memory (aka virtual RAM)?
I'd want to compare to a PII 450 MHz CPU then to decide if the CPU is even comparable to the PII.
Although I never did use Flash 7 and have only dealt with Flash 8 on a animation basis, what's the primary differences between Flash 7 and Flash 8? In other words, what do you gain with 8 that isn't present in 7 that makes it so needed on the S9?
AFAIK it uses NAND chips & picaxe like chips (programmable ;D)
Dan
Acreo Aeneas
08-02-2009, 20:21
AFAIK it uses NAND chips & picaxe like chips (programmable ;D)
Dan
Hmm, if Flash 8 is a significant resource hog compared to Flash 7 but doesn't offer anything substantially needed, I'd say keep the S9 on Flash 7. NAND flash memory (at least on the S9) just isn't nice enough to replace a dedicated RAM chip, processor aside.
I think it would be a big surprise if they would, just like gapless was. However, it wouldn't surprise me if they wait to implement a later version of Flash in the S9 successor.
the biggest problem is S9's cores are ARM cpu (aka RISC or simplified cpu) not PII's x86 cpu (aka CISC or full funtion cpu), 500Mz ARM CPU cannot beat a PII[sad]
another problem: S9 is base on window CE [confused] and flash support on winCE is the job of Adobe not Cowon[wacko]
another problem: S9 is base on window CE [confused] and flash support on winCE is the job of Adobe not Cowon[wacko]
The S9 is based on an OS Cowon created (I thought). Where did you get this info from?
4DThinker
08-03-2009, 06:44
I'm not sure Cowon will feel the need to make an S10. Why? The S9 has got a classic design, that IMO will survive our changing sensitivities and be hard to improve upon. They've already given us clues it's a design they are depending on for awhile. When was the last time you saw a company come out with another color version mid year? I think they could easily come out with an S9+ that would have updated FLASH as well as WiFi and anything else on our wishlists yet have the same beautiful body as our S9s.
Several benefits to Flash 8:
1. Built-in live filters / effects (Drop Shadow)
2. Cache-as-bitmap - which should improve smoothness of the UCI
3. Improved anti-aliasing and a new text rendering engine (Saffron Type System (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saffron_Type_System))
4. Support for GIF files.
5. With AS3, Flash 8 would allow visualizations by having ability to intercept audio stream (however since S9 does not expose sound hardware to Flash, it won't matter at this point).
Also, if we actually move to ActionScript 3, we also get improved array performance and lightweight variable types (like int) ... and much more.
In any case, I don't think this would happen because memory requirements for Flash8 may be higher than the amount of memory Cowon is willing to use, also Cowon integrated firmware and Flash and will probably require significant rewrites to their OS. I would be if they implement Flash 8 it will be in next-gen model of the player.
Acreo Aeneas
08-03-2009, 13:32
the biggest problem is S9's cores are ARM cpu (aka RISC or simplified cpu) not PII's x86 cpu (aka CISC or full funtion cpu), 500Mz ARM CPU cannot beat a PII[sad]
another problem: S9 is base on window CE [confused] and flash support on winCE is the job of Adobe not Cowon[wacko]
I'm looking at the Wikipedia article for the ARM CPU and I'm guessing the S9 has a ARMv7-A (family) Cortex-A8 (core) CPU with two cores on one die or two chips on one PCB?
Doesn't say though what size the L1 and L2 caches are (just says "variable"), no mention that it is dual-core or that there is even a dual-core version, and is used in recent devices like the Palm Pre, Archos 5, iPhone 3Gs, etc.
The CPU may be able to handle Flash 8's load depending on what effects and graphics is implemented by the UI designer/creator and if the L1 + L2 cache is reasonably large. Ultimately, it comes down to the NAND chip that is used as virtual RAM.
chris41188
08-03-2009, 16:53
They have to upgrade to flash 8 as the photo viewer sucks!
They cant call it a PMP when it cant even display photos correctly
The S9 is based on an OS Cowon created (I thought). Where did you get this info from?
Google[blush], but it is quite make sense. Cowon can't afford a lot of time on fm
So they use something exists to make S9 BT & Flash compatible and minimize time-spend on debugging.
Flash 7 player on PPC:
http://www.adobe.com/products/flashplayer_pocketpc/productinfo/faq/
It may prove some of the assumption;)
Where exactly did you find that information? The Q5W and some other devices by Cowon have Windows CE installed, but about the S9's OS I've found nothing.
This: http://iaudiophile.net/forums/showthread.php?t=29866 could have been mis-understood dnw :) cowon/telechips use CE to program the chips... well the SDK only runs on CE 5.0 anyways >.<
Dan
Just stumbled on this thread and I think this is similar to the Wii's Opera Browser Flash not being updated. It's not going to happen because Adobe isn't selling commercial licences for the new version of flash for some odd reason. And as long as you sell a product you need a commercial license of Adobe Flash to bundle it with. Although it's everywhere, flash is not a open standard.
So there you go, new flash is never gonna come, have a good day.
Acreo Aeneas
08-04-2009, 21:36
Flash 8 isn't new. The new one is Flash 10.
I'm looking at the Wikipedia article for the ARM CPU and I'm guessing the S9 has a ARMv7-A (family) Cortex-A8 (core) CPU with two cores on one die or two chips on one PCB?
the cpu inside the cowon s9 is 7901 Series 500 Dual Tele chips (TCC7901) + WM8750S (DAC)
cpu - ARM926EJ-S
Features
- 32bit Dual Core – ARM926EJ-S / ARM946ES (16K/16K Cache , up to 192MHz)
- Core : 1.2V, I/O : 1.8 ~ 3.3V
- Embedded 96K SRAM/8KB DTCM/4KB ITCM
- H/W Video Accelerator
- Support MPEG1/2/4,H.264,DivX4/5,WMV9,JPEG
- Support WMA/MP3/ADPCM Encoding
- Support MP2/MP3/WMA/OGG/AAC/ADPCM/BSAC Decoding
- Support 3D/Java
- LCD Controller (1024×1024 max)
- Camera Interface
- Hard Wired Scaler(2Ch)
- SD/MMC/NAND/HDD/USB1.1 Host I/F
- USB 2.0 High Speed Device
Software Development Kit
Linux, WinCE and Nucleus HW and SW reference solution
T-DMB, DVB-T, DVB-H, One Seg
Camera up to 3M pixel & Camcorder / Java 3D accelerator
WMDRM10
Dual Transparency Mode (MTP/MSC)
Applications
- PDA / PNA (Navigation solution overview)
- Mobile phones
- Mobile TV (T-DMB /DVB-H / DVB-T / ISDB-T)
found from here (http://iaudiophile.net/forums/showthread.php?t=28679) and here (http://www.anythingbutipod.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40292)
DAPmagic
08-05-2009, 07:03
Several benefits to Flash 8:
1. Built-in live filters / effects (Drop Shadow)
2. Cache-as-bitmap - which should improve smoothness of the UCI
3. Improved anti-aliasing and a new text rendering engine (Saffron Type System (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saffron_Type_System))
4. Support for GIF files.
5. With AS3, Flash 8 would allow visualizations by having ability to intercept audio stream (however since S9 does not expose sound hardware to Flash, it won't matter at this point).
Also, if we actually move to ActionScript 3, we also get improved array performance and lightweight variable types (like int) ... and much more.
In any case, I don't think this would happen because memory requirements for Flash8 may be higher than the amount of memory Cowon is willing to use, also Cowon integrated firmware and Flash and will probably require significant rewrites to their OS. I would be if they implement Flash 8 it will be in next-gen model of the player.
That was helpful. [yes]
I'm not as tech-savvy as some of you, so I didn't understand the question about a flash update. [blush]
Acreo Aeneas
08-07-2009, 18:06
the cpu inside the cowon s9 is 7901 Series 500 Dual Tele chips (TCC7901) + WM8750S (DAC)
cpu - ARM926EJ-S
Features
- 32bit Dual Core – ARM926EJ-S / ARM946ES (16K/16K Cache , up to 192MHz)
- Embedded 96K SRAM/8KB DTCM/4KB ITCM
Goodness...that is no where near on par with a Pentium II, more like a old Pentium 1. It's like working with Pentium 1 (before the P55C) just on newer manufacturing, a faster effective bus clock, and has some small amount of embedded RAM (hence it's a SoC or System-on-a-Chip).
vBulletin® v3.8.7, Copyright ©2000-2013, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.