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alydr
05-16-2009, 20:43
I noticed a few people asking what the big deal was between h.264 and xvid.

They were answered (correctly) with: you can get the same quality at a lower file size.

But that doesn't really explain the scale of the difference. I'm just posting one comparison shot for now, I'll probably add more later.

First shot is taken during the intro of an anime called Claymore. Both codecs are at 384 kbps and I have verified that both play identically (perfectly) on the S9.

Here's the xvid:
http://www.caydr.com/xvid-1.png

And here's the h.264:
http://www.caydr.com/h264-1.png

This being an anime intro, as you'd guess it's taken during a fast motion scene. For reference, here's the original, resized to the same dimensions:
http://www.caydr.com/orig-1.png

So... kicking myself right now because I already converted two seasons of The Office with 800kbps xvid when half of that would probably produce similar results using h.264.

silvos3189
05-16-2009, 22:47
what's the filesizes for both xvid and the h.264?

Caleb369
05-16-2009, 22:52
Wowholymolythisisamazing

gorgi
05-17-2009, 07:10
Better than I expected :)
Can't wait for the next fw-update. Maybe they officially add h.264. That would be so cool

Ramzii
05-17-2009, 07:50
oeh thanks for the trouble! Didnt know that 384 kbs resulted in nice picture quuality @ H264.
you use SUPER converter right?

Mr. Black
05-17-2009, 08:28
I noticed a few people asking what the big deal was between h.264 and xvid........

Could you provide more information about your encoding setup? I mean bitrate is one thing but what h.264 profile did you use? any additional settings etc?

alydr
05-17-2009, 12:12
The filesize for the h.264 was 88.0 mb, the xvid was 85.3.

I used Super to produce the h.264 and mediacoder to produce the xvid. The quality is similar with either program, I just happened to use mediacoder for the xvid. I can produce a direct apples to apples comparison if you want.

My settings are currently just set for mediacoder's defaults. I found that if I tried adjusting settings much it would not be playable on the S9. I stopped using Super after the first encode since it does not seem to support 2-pass encoding. What you actually see there is in fact simple single-pass encoding.

Anyway, these are the settings I'm currently using, not the same as what produce the video above but the quality is the same or better:
384 kbps 2-pass (single pass works fine too)
Baseline profile, level 2.2 (level doesn't matter, really)
3 b-frames
6 subpel refinement*
1 predictor frame*
16 motion est. range*
hexagonal motion est. mode*
AVI container
Resize to 480x272
Framerate 23.976

*= not available in Super, probably has no significant effect, just the default MediaCoder settings.

Again, the only thing I actually changed from MC's default was the bitrate, the resize, and the container type. The S9's H.264 support is basically flawless as far as I can tell. Being restricted to the baseline profile doesn't really hinder the video quality that much when you're running it on a small screen. I have the CCCP codec pack installed, though MediaCoder does not use it, it has its own built-in codecs.

BTW, if you choose to use Super, I find that video doesn't tear if you use directplay. It's really a pity Super doesn't support 2-pass, and abr/vbr mp3.

cloudscapes
05-17-2009, 17:43
AFAIK official h.264 support would cost extra licensing fees from Cowon, even if the hardware can UNofficially play it (sort of). so although it would be nice, I'm not betting on it i na future firmware update.

alydr
05-17-2009, 19:03
The "sort of" in your post isn't necessary, it's already there and fully functional. The S9 already plays h.264 better than my PSP. I now have 133 completed transcodes. I've tested over 40 of them and watched 6 of them (each from a different source and format) to their full length.

Whether or not there's a licensing issue or if there will be "official" support is a moot point when it's already fully functional.

cloudscapes
05-17-2009, 19:08
alright, I stand corrected. I was under the impession that h.264 only plays when it's encoded at certain specific settings or combinations of settings (from another thread). obviously I didn't get the whole picture.

Uphaillife
05-17-2009, 19:56
i have a few questions myself!
1. was this spec of h264 support available in past firmwares? cause if it wasnt... maybe there IS a chance that we might get FULL H264 support
2. so the quality of h264 is very dominant over divx? because all mine are divx and i would love to have higher quality with lower file size than lower quality with bigger file size.

thanks guys!

silvos3189
05-17-2009, 22:49
hmm what's the average difference in filesize for like... say a movie of 700mb in divx?

Asmordean
05-18-2009, 11:40
264 vs Divx on low bit-rate encoded files (sub 2000 kbps) is typically about 50%-60% smaller for roughly the same size file.

A 700MB file could be rendered very clean and playable at 350MB.

You can even push it farther and get a decently watchable video.

If space isn't a problem, then Divx is probably faster to encode to and setting that to a 1024+ file would give very watchable results. 264 shines on the very small.

I tried going to the extreme and encoded a video with 128kbps video and 96kbps audio. Now the result is pretty gross but it is watchable in 264, you could store 160 hours on 16GB though! In Xvid it's so bad you can barely tell what you are watching. Going to 256 cleans it up a lot and moving to 384 gets you near the point where you stop noticing the compression artifacts. At 384kbps you are looking at about 60+ hours of video on a 16GB unit.

alydr
05-18-2009, 11:42
1) I don't know what your definition of "full" is. h.264 already works perfect.

2) Yes, h.264 is by far a better codec, it is a much more recent standard which for instance digital video cameras have only just begun using in the last year or so. h.264 is one of the formats that Blu-Ray can use natively. When you're downloading videos, legally of course, you will typically find an xvid copy and an h.264 copy of the same video, they will have the same filesize, but the h.264 is double the resolution (meaning 4 times the pixel data but with the same filesize). Xvid/DivX has been around for about 8-10 years in one form or another.

The downside could be battery life. AFAIK nobody's done a battery life test yet, but it's likely that there is some amount of battery life reduction. That said, I doubt it's significant. Using my PSP, I can run a homebrew h.264 player called PMP Player Advance and it runs the CPU at only 66 mhz to decode video of the same size as the S9.

For widescreen animation, 384 is pretty good, meaning that your typical 24 minute anime release can be reduced to ~90 mb.

For widescreen live action, 384 probably won't be quite good enough, although I haven't tried it. Right now I'm re-encoding my videos at 480 kbps and they seem to be quite good quality. A typical 43 minute TV show such as House or a long episode of The Office can be reduced to ~190 mb.

It's hard to say how much difference there will be in filesize for a 700 mb file, can you tell me what the video duration is instead? The episodes of House and The Office above, in my case, actually started out at 700 mb.

For all of these videos I'm using MediaCoder, not Super though. With Super, since it doesn't support 2-pass encoding, you might need a little higher bitrate. And you'll almost definitely want to use 160/192 kbps audio since it doesn't let you do VBR/ABR.

alydr
05-18-2009, 11:44
Here's a comparison package, it contains a movie trailer in its original resolution, plus the video converted into h.264 and xvid at various bitrates so you can see the difference yourself. Play them on your S9, they work perfect.

Here's the link: http://www.mediafire.com/?4zjmnnzzydh
It's a 7-zip self-extracting exe. You can open it with 7-zip if you're afraid of the extension.

I've said this a dozen times now, but just to make sure I'm clear, a big part of the reason the videos are looking so good is the 2-pass encoding.

Ryoma-Echizen
05-18-2009, 17:31
Thanks, that settings of mediacoder really works!

S9 2.20FW

Uphaillife
05-18-2009, 20:42
@alydr: thanks for the response! i meant when i said "full" support by the ability to put ANY h264 resolution videos and just play it since i believe the current dimensions are strictly restricted to 480 by 272 or something like that.
anyways... off to convert them videos to h264 (: thanks!

djini
05-19-2009, 17:58
Could one of you please tell me what specs of h.264 the s9 requires. I figured I might as well start ripping things now, as the s9 is in the mail.

Just to clarify; no hocus pocus is required to get the s9 to play h.264?

Thanks,
Djini

celith
05-19-2009, 23:29
My settings are currently just set for mediacoder's defaults. I found that if I tried adjusting settings much it would not be playable on the S9. I stopped using Super after the first encode since it does not seem to support 2-pass encoding. What you actually see there is in fact simple single-pass encoding.

Anyway, these are the settings I'm currently using, not the same as what produce the video above but the quality is the same or better:
384 kbps 2-pass (single pass works fine too)
Baseline profile, level 2.2 (level doesn't matter, really)
3 b-frames
6 subpel refinement*
1 predictor frame*
16 motion est. range*
hexagonal motion est. mode*
AVI container
Resize to 480x272
Framerate 23.976


I've been playing around with this for a couple days now. I've tweaked these settings slightly, based on purely theoretical gains in quality at the same bitrate. Eventually I'll need to do some direct comparisons to see if there really is any improvement. Anyway, settings I now know can be adjusted and still work on the S9:

b-frames changed to 4
motion est. range changed to 32
uneven multi-hexagon motion estimation
frame rate left unchecked (should auto adjust to match source)

One thing I've found that will really mess up the output when played on the S9 is the predictor frame setting. Anything other than 1 seems to cause serious video corruption.

Just trying to add a little to the testing. :)

Ryoma-Echizen
05-20-2009, 00:49
480x272 / 480x360 @550Kbps (alydr settings for the rest)

Flawless, awesome quality.


djini (http://iaudiophile.net/forums/member.php?u=29442)
mediacoder --> encode the file --> play it in your S9

alydr
05-20-2009, 13:42
For 16:9 use 480x272 (duh) but for 4:3 videos you'd want to use 368x272, not 480x360, for a couple of reasons. First, it's true that the S9 will resize it to give you the correct size anyway, but you'll get better video quality if you just make a smaller video to begin with. (480x360 = 172,800 pixels to keep track of, 368x272 = 100,096 pixels, or a 58% reduction)

Second, 360 isn't divisible by 16, which will (probably) come back to bite you in the ass at some point. I don't recall the specifics but I think h.264 requires the video dimensions to be divisible by 16. Or that might just be the x264 encoder. Whatever.

Third, since you're encoding less data, you can probably reduce your bitrate a little and fit more on your S9 without any reduction in quality.

One thing I've found that will really mess up the output when played on the S9 is the predictor frame setting. Anything other than 1 seems to cause serious video corruption.
Aha! I was wondering which one it was, I kept tweaking the settings but eventually just stuck with the defaults. Have you been able to increase the b-frames past 4 or the motion est. range past 32? For animation in particular higher b-frames would (I think) make a great improvement in quality, especially in 2-pass encoding.

djini
05-20-2009, 13:46
Thanks for that.
Can either of these programs do conversions? Could I convert some mpeg-4's to h.264 and have them be half the size, but the same quality(sort of like an ogg mp3 relation)?

For example, I have the movie apollo 13 as an mpeg-4 and it is about 800 megabytes (large). Could I convert it to a 264 and make it smaller but the same, or better quality?

If so I thoroughly endorse this process, and would like to be a part in it.
If these programs (mediacoder, super) cannot are there any that can?

Sorry for the (somewhat mild I hope) threadjack.
I suppose it sort of pertains to the original topic...

alydr
05-20-2009, 13:54
I don't think I understand... what's the difference between "conversions" and "transcoding"?

If you're just talking about taking a 700 mb 720x480 xvid dvdrip... and turning it into a 120mb 480x272 h264 S9 vid, that's what mediacoder's perfect for.

djini
05-20-2009, 13:58
Oh, all right I thought we were talking about ripping (burning) stuff. Sorry. What about the situation that I talked about above?


For example, I have the movie apollo 13 as an mpeg-4 and it is about 800 megabytes (large). Could I convert it to a 264 and make it smaller but the same, or better quality?

Scarpad
05-20-2009, 14:19
The filesize for the h.264 was 88.0 mb, the xvid was 85.3.

I used Super to produce the h.264 and mediacoder to produce the xvid. The quality is similar with either program, I just happened to use mediacoder for the xvid. I can produce a direct apples to apples comparison if you want.

My settings are currently just set for mediacoder's defaults. I found that if I tried adjusting settings much it would not be playable on the S9. I stopped using Super after the first encode since it does not seem to support 2-pass encoding. What you actually see there is in fact simple single-pass encoding.

Anyway, these are the settings I'm currently using, not the same as what produce the video above but the quality is the same or better:
384 kbps 2-pass (single pass works fine too)
Baseline profile, level 2.2 (level doesn't matter, really)
3 b-frames
6 subpel refinement*
1 predictor frame*
16 motion est. range*
hexagonal motion est. mode*
AVI container
Resize to 480x272
Framerate 23.976

*= not available in Super, probably has no significant effect, just the default MediaCoder settings.

Again, the only thing I actually changed from MC's default was the bitrate, the resize, and the container type. The S9's H.264 support is basically flawless as far as I can tell. Being restricted to the baseline profile doesn't really hinder the video quality that much when you're running it on a small screen. I have the CCCP codec pack installed, though MediaCoder does not use it, it has its own built-in codecs.

BTW, if you choose to use Super, I find that video doesn't tear if you use directplay. It's really a pity Super doesn't support 2-pass, and abr/vbr mp3.

Yes that's the result. There's no arguing that at the same lower bitrate the H264 will look better, but at the cost of some time. Now when you record at lower resolutions like 480x272 it won't be as bad, but recording at 640x352, it will take longer, you just have to decide if it's worth the wait. I fin if I bump up the bitrate a little bit I will get the quality of the H264 it will just be a tad bit larger. I have a lot of things to encode so I'd rather save time. You'll just have to decide what's more important to you. Also the S9's support for H264 right now is non standard, I might feel differnt when it supports standard MP4 files which have AAC not MP3 sountracks.

alydr
05-20-2009, 14:20
Absolutely, that shouldn't be a problem.

Also, turns out b-frames aren't actually used in the baseline profile... so nevermind about that.

Motion estimation mode and range are strictly encoder-related things from what I understand, so it should be possible to set those to anything we want and the S9 will still play them. A little research has taught me that uneven multi-hex is the best all-round mode, going to exhaustive greatly increases encoding time without any significant benefit. Various high end profiles still recommend a range of only 16 but I've read that 32 and 64 are also good settings, though they will increase encoding time. I'll see how 32 works out. The subpel range option AFAIK is another main/high profile setting so it can be anything. No harm in leaving it at 6.

A wide variety of content encoding over the last couple days has led me to the conclusion that 480 is the ideal bitrate for good quality without too large filesize, while 720 will basically reproduce the source almost 1:1 regardless of what it is. ABR 128 MP3 is adequate for anything but music videos or anything else where the music is the main subject matter. Going much lower leads to noticable voice distortion.

I'm so glad I got my S9, this is so much better and easier than my PSP, not to mention that there isn't severe ghosting everytime there's movement.

Scarpad
05-20-2009, 14:21
For 16:9 use 480x272 (duh) but for 4:3 videos you'd want to use 368x272, not 480x360, for a couple of reasons. First, it's true that the S9 will resize it to give you the correct size anyway, but you'll get better video quality if you just make a smaller video to begin with. (480x360 = 172,800 pixels to keep track of, 368x272 = 100,096 pixels, or a 58% reduction)

Second, 360 isn't divisible by 16, which will (probably) come back to bite you in the ass at some point. I don't recall the specifics but I think h.264 requires the video dimensions to be divisible by 16. Or that might just be the x264 encoder. Whatever.

Third, since you're encoding less data, you can probably reduce your bitrate a little and fit more on your S9 without any reduction in quality.


Aha! I was wondering which one it was, I kept tweaking the settings but eventually just stuck with the defaults. Have you been able to increase the b-frames past 4 or the motion est. range past 32? For animation in particular higher b-frames would (I think) make a great improvement in quality, especially in 2-pass encoding.


I find using 480x360 will work fine, it gives you the full res on the reslution and maintains aspect ratio. I usually just bump up the bitrate a bit more and it look sfine

Ryoma-Echizen
05-20-2009, 20:38
I prefer to have a video that will use the full 480 horizontal resolution in case I want to use the "crop" feature, 480x360 on the 480x272 losing some pixels up and down. On those cases there's a significant difference in definition.

Encoded that way the average anime episode size is about 100-120MB. Maybe for the ones that use the S9 more as a video player than a music player the thing of saving the latest bit of bitrate could be a logical decision.

In my case I have all the music I want on a portable device leaving 9GB of free space. I just put some video for curiosity like some south park classics, a wwe 700MB show, some anime episodes and so on.

Scarpad
05-22-2009, 09:55
Has anyone tried these exact same specs with a slightly larger rez file notebly 640x480 to see if it would play?

ls103rb
05-22-2009, 10:04
Has anyone tried these exact same specs with a slightly larger rez file notebly 640x480 to see if it would play?

Tried, won't play.

2ndchance
05-22-2009, 23:08
Hey guys, I've been following this post and attempted to convert a xvid-dvd rip of mine into h.264 format. I downloaded mediacoder and used the exact same settings as suggested by alydr. Unfortunately, it wouldn't play on my s9. Can you guys help me out?

Here's some information on the dvd i want to convert:
Hero (freakin good movie)
bitrate: 1015 kbps
size: 697mb
video: xvid
resolution:640x272
frame rate:23.98

Actually, there is one difference from the settings described in here and that was that I included a subtitle text to the conversion...can this possible be the source of error?

celith
05-23-2009, 20:11
Hey guys, I've been following this post and attempted to convert a xvid-dvd rip of mine into h.264 format. I downloaded mediacoder and used the exact same settings as suggested by alydr. Unfortunately, it wouldn't play on my s9. Can you guys help me out?

Here's some information on the dvd i want to convert:
Hero (freakin good movie)
bitrate: 1015 kbps
size: 697mb
video: xvid
resolution:640x272
frame rate:23.98

Actually, there is one difference from the settings described in here and that was that I included a subtitle text to the conversion...can this possible be the source of error?

Hard to be certain without seeing all of your settings. I know the first time I tried to run with the original settings posted, I forgot to set the profile to "baseline" instead of the default "main" (or was it "auto"). The S9 in it's current state will only play baseline encoded files it seems. Other things to double check, audio must be MP3 and it has to be in an .avi container.

If none of that is the issue, maybe try your existing settings without the subtitles and see if that makes a difference. You can always go to the "time" tab in mediacoder and do a test encode of a 5 minute chunk (might want to start it partly into the movie though, so you're not just encoding opening credits).

2ndchance
05-23-2009, 22:56
It works!My profile was, as you guessed correctly, on "auto" and not baseline. Much thanks celith!

sidestep22
05-25-2009, 15:04
Hard to be certain without seeing all of your settings. I know the first time I tried to run with the original settings posted, I forgot to set the profile to "baseline" instead of the default "main" (or was it "auto"). The S9 in it's current state will only play baseline encoded files it seems. Other things to double check, audio must be MP3 and it has to be in an .avi container.

If none of that is the issue, maybe try your existing settings without the subtitles and see if that makes a difference. You can always go to the "time" tab in mediacoder and do a test encode of a 5 minute chunk (might want to start it partly into the movie though, so you're not just encoding opening credits).

Hello All,

I've been following this thread and have found it to be very helpful.. but I still have a problem.

I've used both Super and Mediacoder and found that Mediacoder provides more fluid video (I'm trying to convert Lord of the Rings, Fellowship of the Ring) and if you every saw that movie you know it has alot of sweeping shots.

Mediacoder, when configured to the settings provided here works awesome on the video front, but the audio doesn't sync up perfectly. I've searched online in a couple different places and tried delays, which doesn't seem to be doing much and also changing the "source" on the "audio" tab to MEncoder, keeping LAME mp3 as the encoder and the S9 doesn't like that. It won't play the file. I've spent serveral hours trying different combinations and nothing seems to work for mediacoder.

Super, pegs the audio perfectly, but the video is rough, (aka nonfluid) and just not as good as mediacoder.

Have any of the people in this thread run into a similar problem? If so, how did you get around it? For the record, when I have the source and endcorer to "auto" the file play perfectly on my laptop, it is only when it goes over to the S9 that the audio goes out of whack. I've noticed that when the file first starts playing it seems to need to speed up / slow down as the player gets fully going.

If anyone has any suggestions, I would be greatly appreciative.

Thanks!

Michael

SmackDaddy
05-28-2009, 12:05
I have tried MediaCoder but with strange results and now I' m using Badak which is very fast and reliable. But I can' t transcode via H264 as my S9 wont play that AVI file. XVID works great. Any suggestions to this?

Link to Badak http://eng.kipple.pe.kr/doc/badak/

sidestep22
05-28-2009, 12:38
I have tried MediaCoder but with strange results and now I' m using Badak which is very fast and reliable. But I can' t transcode via H264 as my S9 wont play that AVI file. XVID works great. Any suggestions to this?

Link to Badak http://eng.kipple.pe.kr/doc/badak/

Well I haven't tried Badak (having installed way too many conversion programs in the past week, I thought I'd give it a break and stick with mediacoder for awhile).

As was discussed above, one of the main issues seems to be the h.264 profile. In mediacoder, you choose baseline on the video tab, in Super you select Baseline (CABAC) off from the H264 profile submenu (under options on the right side).

I was having problems using both mediacoder and Super, but once I switched to Baseline everything was ok.

I'm still having the sync issues with the mediacoder program. If any of the people have a solution to that, I'm all ears.

Thanks,

Michael

daver
05-28-2009, 12:57
while it doesn't convert to h264, PocketDivXEncoder is pretty great for basic XVID movies. it also has a built in synchronisation feature that automatically syncs converted videos (if the A\V are out of sync after a transcode) which is super handy.

i've been using this for my PDA and PSP for a long time now, and i'm pretty happy with it. you can also batch convert, so set it up and let it run over night! best part is, it's free and doesn't require any installation (it's a standalone EXE, sorry Mac users!)

hxxp://www.pocketdivxencoder.net

alydr
05-28-2009, 19:42
Sidestep:

With losing sync, just a wild guess but it might be worth a try. Use mencoder for your source, then click "source". It will open a menu. Set "rebuild AVI index" to yes. This, might, fix your problem.

If you can't get it to work, just user Super but enable the "directplay filters" option (or similar), it cleans it up the video tearing in panning shots nicely. Er... well it did for me.

Other things to try: if you're using bitrate-based encoding, use 2-pass. If you're using 2-pass, try bitrate-based. If you're using a high bitrate (800+), try something lower, like, 800. Also if you're using very high bitrate MP3 try something less.

I have tried MediaCoder but with strange results and now I' m using Badak which is very fast and reliable. But I can' t transcode via H264 as my S9 wont play that AVI file. XVID works great. Any suggestions to this?

Link to Badak http://eng.kipple.pe.kr/doc/badak/

Suggestion: since people without any previous posts keep joining the forum just to make links to Badak and then getting banned, don't, on your first post, make a link to Badak.

I don't know what badak is besides spamming failsauce, but your problem is almost certainly to do with the audio codec not being chosen properly (needs to be MP3), or not using the Baseline encoder profile. Most anything else you can do to screw up the encode will still play fine, just won't look worth a pinch'a'coon'shit.

SmackDaddy
05-29-2009, 13:06
Hi Alydr!

I don' t think I understand your comments right. I thought this tread was about transcoding via XVID and H264 and not only related to the SUPER and MediaCoder programs.

I have tried MediaCoder and had strange behaviour regarding sound and speed and then I tried Badak for the 1. time and it worked great in my opinion. What is wrong about informing other users about that?

If this thread only covers SUPER and MediaCoder then I really regret posting the link to Badak. I did not do this with any bad intentions in mind at all.

dfkt
05-29-2009, 13:12
Suggestion: since people without any previous posts keep joining the forum just to make links to Badak and then getting banned, don't, on your first post, make a link to Badak.

I don't know what badak is besides spamming failsauce, but your problem is almost certainly to do with the audio codec not being chosen properly (needs to be MP3), or not using the Baseline encoder profile. Most anything else you can do to screw up the encode will still play fine, just won't look worth a pinch'a'coon'shit.

Badak is a most excellent Mencoder transcoding frontend, and I've been using it for years as my main app to get things on various portable players. There's nothing "spammy" about it in the least, and I sure hope nobody gets banned for mentioning it. It's completely free and nobody gains anything by linking to it - except sharing info about an app that works extremely well for most people.

It's bad times we live in when Badak (advertised by word of mouth from happy users) is getting lumped together with commercial scum junk like Xilisoft, or whatever crap is the spambot flavor of the month.

Since you said you don't know what Badak is, I might suggest you take a look at it before jumping to conclusions.

alydr
06-08-2009, 21:46
Sorry, didn't mean to offend, I've just seen a few threads at various forums - maybe all the same guy? - advertising Badak in a similar manner. This just seemed very familiar.

Maybe this thread should be stickied? Or maybe I could make a new one, with more quality samples and stuff, and have that be stickied? There seem to be people still having trouble getting this to work perfectly.

jmoz
06-09-2009, 14:11
Has anyone been able to get HandBrake (v 0.9.3 ideally) to transcode to H.264 that the S9 can read? I played with it for a while, but HB does not seem to have an option to select baseline H.264. The reason I'm trying to do it in HandBrake is because I would like to be able to watch my DVDs on my S9 with a minimum of hassle, and ideally the superior performance of H.264.

I'd prefer to use HB (with DVD43), though I am open to alternative suggestions. MediaCoder doesn't seem to like encrypted (i.e. virtually all) DVDs, and as far as I can tell, old versions had an "enabler" to do DeCSS, but I can't find that enabler on any site that looks even remotely reputable. Obviously, I could use HB (or DVDShrink or whatever program you like) to rip the DVD and then convert it with MediaCoder, but a direct approach is preferable.

I hope this isn't too far afield for this thread, but if it is, I will start a new thread.

Ohnoze
06-09-2009, 15:11
nevermind

jmoz
06-09-2009, 16:18
Actually, it's weirder than what I thought- HandBrake DOES use baseline. I did the following 2 things, both of which worked correctly:

A.
1. Do H.264 encode in Handbrake.
2. Re-encode in MediaCoder.
- Tested on S9 - works perfectly.

B.
1. Do H.264 encode in Handbrake.
2. Do a re-encode in MediaCoder, but with "Copy video" and "copy audio"
- Also works perfectly.

Does that mean HB handles the AVI container incorrectly for H.264? (XVid in HB works fine). Any thoughts??

Many thanks!

Has anyone been able to get HandBrake (v 0.9.3 ideally) to transcode to H.264 that the S9 can read? I played with it for a while, but HB does not seem to have an option to select baseline H.264. The reason I'm trying to do it in HandBrake is because I would like to be able to watch my DVDs on my S9 with a minimum of hassle, and ideally the superior performance of H.264.

I'd prefer to use HB (with DVD43), though I am open to alternative suggestions. MediaCoder doesn't seem to like encrypted (i.e. virtually all) DVDs, and as far as I can tell, old versions had an "enabler" to do DeCSS, but I can't find that enabler on any site that looks even remotely reputable. Obviously, I could use HB (or DVDShrink or whatever program you like) to rip the DVD and then convert it with MediaCoder, but a direct approach is preferable.

I hope this isn't too far afield for this thread, but if it is, I will start a new thread.

Asmordean
06-09-2009, 19:54
The best I can come up with is HB doesn't interleave the same as Super/Mediacoder. If you look at the file properties of a Mediacoder file vs HB in VideoLan you'll see what I mean.

Miniwintz
06-10-2009, 19:25
Just converted video "Home" from Youtube HD to 480*272 H.264
Quality is stunning [excited] for as little as 500kbps

Thank you !

Ohnoze
06-11-2009, 08:13
Do you see much difference between xvid and h.264 on a screen as small as the S9's?

kimsama
06-11-2009, 09:03
What configuration in the application "SUPER", i have to save?

Ohnoze
06-11-2009, 09:33
480x272 in the past has made the picture look streached like the sides were pushed in. Would I be able to change the size to 640x272 without any issues?

jmoz
06-11-2009, 10:40
Ohnoze, you have to resize the video to something with the same aspect ratio as the original. For example, many movies have an aspect ratio of 2.35:1. (That is, they are 2.35 times wider than their height). In that case, you can resize to something with the same aspect ratio (i.e. 640x272). The S9 will display this without the stretching, but during playback, you can also choose the stretching or cropping.

I use HandBrake, which tells me the aspect ratio of the original. In fact, if you follow this thread, my preferred practice for DVD -> S9 is as follows:

1. Make H.264 using HandBrake (using DVD43 for encryped DVD). (Settings below)
2. Using MediaCoder, I convert this H.264/mp3 AVI into an H.264/mp3 AVI using "Copy stream" for both video and audio. Note that I don't know why this step is necessary, but it is required to make videos play on the S9. Fortunately, it only takes 1-2 minutes.

HandBrake Settings:
- Format: AVI (obviously!)
- Anamorphic: None
- Width: 480 (16:9 original) or 640 (2.35:1 original) or whatever necessary.
- Height: 272 <-- I'm considering trying to increase this (and the width) if I buy a video out cable. Anyone know if the S9 video out outputs a higher resolution?
- Video Codec: H.264
- Framerate: Same as source
- Avg. Bitrate: 700 (increase for higher quality, but this looks quite good on the S9 screen to me)
- Advanced Encoduing Settings: 2-Pass Encoding with Turbo first pass
- Audio codec: mp3
- Audio Bitrate: 128

Under Advanced H.264 options (at least some of these are important! These are taken from what others used in MediaCoder/SUPER.)
- Reference frames: 1
- B-frames: 0
- Motion estimation method: Uneven Multi-Hexagon
- Motion Estimation range: 32
- No-Fast-P-Skip
- CABAC Entropy Coding OFF

Again, these settings only work for me if I re-encode (copying the streams) using MediaCoder, but it's easy. If anyone can figure out how to avoid this, do let me know.

I hope this helps!



480x272 in the past has made the picture look streached like the sides were pushed in. Would I be able to change the size to 640x272 without any issues?

Ohnoze
06-11-2009, 10:54
Ohnoze, you have to resize the video to something with the same aspect ratio as the original. For example, many movies have an aspect ratio of 2.35:1. (That is, they are 2.35 times wider than their height). In that case, you can resize to something with the same aspect ratio (i.e. 640x272). The S9 will display this without the stretching, but during playback, you can also choose the stretching or cropping.

I use HandBrake, which tells me the aspect ratio of the original. In fact, if you follow this thread, my preferred practice for DVD -> S9 is as follows:

1. Make H.264 using HandBrake (using DVD43 for encryped DVD). (Settings below)
2. Using MediaCoder, I convert this H.264/mp3 AVI into an H.264/mp3 AVI using "Copy stream" for both video and audio. Note that I don't know why this step is necessary, but it is required to make videos play on the S9. Fortunately, it only takes 1-2 minutes.

HandBrake Settings:
- Format: AVI (obviously!)
- Anamorphic: None
- Width: 480 (16:9 original) or 640 (2.35:1 original) or whatever necessary.
- Height: 272 <-- I'm considering trying to increase this (and the width) if I buy a video out cable. Anyone know if the S9 video out outputs a higher resolution?
- Video Codec: H.264
- Framerate: Same as source
- Avg. Bitrate: 700 (increase for higher quality, but this looks quite good on the S9 screen to me)
- Advanced Encoduing Settings: 2-Pass Encoding with Turbo first pass
- Audio codec: mp3
- Audio Bitrate: 128

Under Advanced H.264 options (at least some of these are important! These are taken from what others used in MediaCoder/SUPER.)
- Reference frames: 1
- B-frames: 0
- Motion estimation method: Uneven Multi-Hexagon
- Motion Estimation range: 32
- No-Fast-P-Skip
- CABAC Entropy Coding OFF

Again, these settings only work for me if I re-encode (copying the streams) using MediaCoder, but it's easy. If anyone can figure out how to avoid this, do let me know.

I hope this helps!

I'm printing this out now, thank you very much!

I use handbreak as well but I have never re-encoded with Mediacoder. Not sure how that works but I'll give it a shot.

jmoz
06-11-2009, 14:22
Not a problem. HandBrake alone works fine for XviD. The re-encoding only seems to be necessary for H.264. I'd love to know why, but I'm just glad that it seems to work.

I'm printing this out now, thank you very much!

I use handbreak as well but I have never re-encoded with Mediacoder. Not sure how that works but I'll give it a shot.

Miniwintz
06-11-2009, 15:11
Do you see much difference between xvid and h.264 on a screen as small as the S9's?
Yup, the problem with Xvid videos is the quantity of artifacts and such things (like a crappy JPG picture)
With H.264 there are less artifacts and the image is sharper even with much lower bitrates than standard Xvid.
I defenetely won't use Xvid anymore.

TackyTiger
06-11-2009, 22:10
I've been trying without any success to encode directly using mencoder with the x264 codec.

I see some of the tools recommended here are front-ends to mencoder - I don't suppose any have the option to display the command line settings they are sending to mencoder?

fednat
06-12-2009, 01:41
I've been trying without any success to encode directly using mencoder with the x264 codec.

I see some of the tools recommended here are front-ends to mencoder - I don't suppose any have the option to display the command line settings they are sending to mencoder?

I've done some test yesterday with mencoder and x264 and it worked.
I've made a little bash script for converting videos, I'll post it later (I am at the office now)

Bye

fednat
06-12-2009, 10:41
Here's my bash script


#!/bin/bash

if [ "$#" -lt "2" ]
then
echo
echo "ERROR: Too few arguments"
echo "Usage: s9encode filename bitrate"
echo
exit
else
filename="$1"
bitrate="$2"
fi

if ! [ -e "$filename" ]
then
echo "ERROR: file $filename does not exists "
exit
fi

mencoder "$filename" -ovc x264 -x264encopts pass=1:bitrate=$bitrate:nocabac:trellis=1 \
-vf scale=-10:272 -af volnorm=1 -oac pcm -o "/dev/null"
mencoder "$filename" -ovc x264 -x264encopts pass=2:bitrate=$bitrate:nocabac:trellis=1:psnr \
-vf scale=-10:272 -af volnorm=1 -oac mp3lame -lameopts cbr:br=128 \
-o video.avi

rm -f divx2pass.log


It works for me, I hope it helps you

Bye

snuffed
06-15-2009, 03:49
I seem to be having some trouble - started converting my xvids into 264 yesterday using mediacoder, uploaded them onto my S9, tested it and they all played fine, audio was in sync etc. However when I went back to watch the same videos on my S9 a few hours later, they would not play (the black screen with the tick and red stop sign shows up). I have not changed firmware or anything inside system UI folder for about a week now and I am using the same settings for mediacoder as alydr's. Does anyone have any idea what might be causing this?

alydr
06-15-2009, 22:13
The red X is caused by:

not baseline profile
too high predictor frames (max is 1)
incorrect audio format (must be mp3)
wrong container (must be AVI)

It makes no sense for a file to play fine one day and not work a week later, unless... maybe... there could be file system corruption. That might be bad. For some inexplicable reason, the FAT filesystem is too complex for lower-end (no offense, Cowon's just not Sony) manufacturers to work with.

Seriously... what's the deal with electronics that can't so much as allow you to delete a file without messing things up? I just deleted a folder on my S9 and now the whole thing's weird, directories are cross-linked, they're in multiple places... what a mess. I have to copy everything over again, I think.

On the other hand, maybe you just got a lot of files not encoded properly. Mediacoder is an imperfect program, as anyone who's used it for any length of time knows. From time to time it gets some kind of code cancer and decides to fubar everything from that point on. To correct this, go to File > Revert All Settings. This will do exactly as it says, basically reset mediacoder to its standard settings. Then just load one of these presets I've made:

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?mdzzokj1ozw (http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=b2cf5504edb203d3e7c82ed4b8f0c380e04e75f6 e8ebb871)

Has anyone been able to get HandBrake (v 0.9.3 ideally) to transcode to H.264 that the S9 can read? I played with it for a while, but HB does not seem to have an option to select baseline H.264. The reason I'm trying to do it in HandBrake is because I would like to be able to watch my DVDs on my S9 with a minimum of hassle, and ideally the superior performance of H.264.

I'd prefer to use HB (with DVD43), though I am open to alternative suggestions. MediaCoder doesn't seem to like encrypted (i.e. virtually all) DVDs, and as far as I can tell, old versions had an "enabler" to do DeCSS, but I can't find that enabler on any site that looks even remotely reputable. Obviously, I could use HB (or DVDShrink or whatever program you like) to rip the DVD and then convert it with MediaCoder, but a direct approach is preferable.

I hope this isn't too far afield for this thread, but if it is, I will start a new thread.

Sorry, I forgot about this... I will try to get a working Handbrake profile soon, I'm pretty sure I know what's going wrong for you.

jmoz
06-16-2009, 09:26
It would be great if you could get it to work directly without the MediaCoder step. (Please read my next post before spending a lot of time on this- the H.264 is fine; the problem appears to be something HB does with the container.)


Sorry, I forgot about this... I will try to get a working Handbrake profile soon, I'm pretty sure I know what's going wrong for you.

butler360
07-04-2009, 12:54
Any chance of a MediaCoder preset with CUDA? Or can we use the provided presets with CUDA? I've tried it and I thought usually an icon shows up in the system tray when CUDA is working.

Symmetry
07-04-2009, 13:34
Unfortunately, I know nothing about that. If you find it out, though, please let me know.

Ryoma-Echizen
07-15-2009, 23:07
Queen's Blade Op @480x272 2000Kbps H264 ;P

Downsized from the Blu-ray 1080p rip (S9 fw 2.30)

http://rapidshare.com/files/256324251/Queen_s_Blade_OP__480x272_Blu-Ray_x264_.avi

xBboy_Rewindx
07-19-2009, 23:35
Wow the quality on that Queen's Blade Op is amazing but can you tell me what you used and what settings did you use? or did you followed this thread and just Increased it to 2000kbps?

dfkt
07-20-2009, 07:20
2000kbps for 480x272 h.264 - now if that isn't overkill I don't know what is! :D

General
Complete name : D:\Queen_s_Blade_OP__480x272_Blu-Ray_x264_.avi
Format : AVI
Format/Info : Audio Video Interleave
File size : 22.9 MiB
Duration : 1mn 29s
Overall bit rate : 2 139 Kbps
Writing application : MediaCoder 0.7

Video
Format : h264
Codec ID : h264
Duration : 1mn 29s
Bit rate : 2 000 Kbps
Width : 480 pixels
Height : 272 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16/9
Frame rate : 23.976 fps
Resolution : 24 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.639
Stream size : 21.4 MiB (93%)

Audio
Format : MPEG Audio
Format version : Version 1
Format profile : Layer 3
Codec ID : 55
Codec ID/Hint : MP3
Duration : 1mn 29s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 128 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Resolution : 16 bits
Stream size : 1.37 MiB (6%)
Alignment : Aligned on interleaves
Interleave, duration : 24 ms (0.57 video frame)
Interleave, preload duration : 504 ms

Acreo Aeneas
07-20-2009, 08:15
2 mbit bitrate isn't really overkill seeing how DVD quality falls somewhere between 1.5 mbps and 11 mbps (a 2:xx movie nearly fills a entire dual-layer DVD).

Is there a highest bitrate for the S9 or has no discovered the limit yet?

lutscher
07-20-2009, 10:13
I've found the way to convert to H264 for Cowon S9 with any video conveter!

The trick was just disabling "CABAC"! Finally! I am using AVS Video Converter.
You can use any custom settings but remember to disable "CABAC" before converting.

Scarpad
07-20-2009, 11:35
2 mbit bitrate isn't really overkill seeing how DVD quality falls somewhere between 1.5 mbps and 11 mbps (a 2:xx movie nearly fills a entire dual-layer DVD).

Is there a highest bitrate for the S9 or has no discovered the limit yet?

Yes, But DVD video is 720x480 and needs a higher bitrate usually between 4-6 mipps. Half that resolution, I'd say much beyond 800 with H264 is unnecessary.

dfkt
07-20-2009, 12:27
Exactly, Scarpad.

Not to mention DVDs use ancient and ineffective MPEG2 video - this can not be not compared to state-of-the-art h.264 compression at all.

The above 480x272 video clip would have the same quality at half the bitrate, or even less.

I'm usually encoding my DVDs with the lesser efficient XviD codec at 640x480, and even there 1000kbps looks more or less perfect (when encoded with the right tools, that is).

tehownt
07-20-2009, 17:19
I've found the way to convert to H264 for Cowon S9 with any video conveter!

The trick was just disabling "CABAC"! Finally! I am using AVS Video Converter.
You can use any custom settings but remember to disable "CABAC" before converting.

Do you mean encode H.264 in any container (mp4 for instance) or is it still H.264 with mp3 sound in an AVI container ?
If it's still in an AVI container, the problem with MPG4 GUIs is that they usually don't allow that mix but it's totally doable with the few that allow it (SUPER or mencoder cmd-line).

tehownt
07-20-2009, 17:51
By the way, according to Wikipedia CABAC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CABAC) is "notable for providing considerably better compression than most other encoding algorithms used in video encoding and is considered one of the primary advantages of the H.264/AVC encoding scheme." so I think disabling it is may drastically change the encoding quality but we should check if it's important on a 480 px screen.

lutscher
07-21-2009, 00:46
No it doesn't.
I've just converted a movie (Disturbia) BluRay 720p to H.264 .avi container with mp3 at 1200 kbps.

I must say that the movie looks AMAZING! I dunno what CABAC is but if you enable it before converting, the S9 won't recognize the video.

I think i should upload some parts of the movie to show you how the quality looks amazing also disabling CABAC.

xBboy_Rewindx
07-21-2009, 03:27
I think i should upload some parts of the movie to show you how the quality looks amazing also disabling CABAC.

LOL why don't you just upload the wholeeee movie? Make it a torrent or something for I can see the WHOLEE thing not just some parts. I want to see the quality of the whole movie.

Uphaillife
07-21-2009, 03:29
LOL why don't you just upload the wholeeee movie? Make it a torrent or something for I can see the WHOLEE thing not just some parts. I want to see the quality of the whole movie.

illegal downloading? ;)

tehownt
07-21-2009, 17:12
Actually, by selecting the "Baseline" profile of H.264 for encoding it disables CABAC (for instance in SUPER).

So far though, from what I've seen the limit on the softwares you can use to encode H.264 for the S9 isn't due to the profile selection of H.264 (as any AVC encoder should allow you to do so) it's more related to which encoder allows you the weird H.264 w/ mp3 audio in an AVI container combination, most do not give you that option for "cleanliness" purposes (hdconvertox, megui, automkv, etc.)...
But that's nice that you found another encoder that allows this mix, maybe it'll be faster that mencoder or SUPER.

4DThinker
07-21-2009, 19:47
Queen's Blade Op @480x272 2000Kbps H264 ;P

Downsized from the Blu-ray 1080p rip (S9 fw 2.30)

http://rapidshare.com/files/256324251/Queen_s_Blade_OP__480x272_Blu-Ray_x264_.avi (http://rapidshare.com/files/256324251/Queen_s_Blade_OP__480x272_Blu-Ray_x264_.avi) This file runs fine on my Samsung P3 and iriver SPINN, but won't copy to my S9 no matter how hard I try. Windows warns it's not a compatible format, but even if I ignore that it follows with a report that the S9 has been disconnected (even though the S9 is still plugged in and accessible from the PC). Is there some DRM in this file?

dfkt
07-22-2009, 08:09
The AVI container format cannot contain any DRM mechanism.

Sounds like you probably use MTP mode? I would be amazed if MSC would tell such silly things and behave that way.

danielsl
07-22-2009, 13:04
I am playing with mediacoder, but is it possible for a movie to make 1 big file instead of all the seperate files? Problem now is that it only encode with subtitles for the 1 file

tehownt
07-23-2009, 06:19
Also, when I asked the MeGUI devs to re-add H.264 AVI muxing in it, he told me that they wouldn't do it because it was an abomination, but he linked to a manual avc2avi muxer they made:

http://mirror05.x264.nl/Sharktooth/x264/utils/avc2avi_r594+gui1.2.7z

I haven't tried it, but technically you could use any encoder to get the H.264 stream with mp3 on the side but not mux them, and then use the aforementionned util to mux them into an AVI container.

lutscher
07-27-2009, 06:37
Yes, But DVD video is 720x480 and needs a higher bitrate usually between 4-6 mipps. Half that resolution, I'd say much beyond 800 with H264 is unnecessary.
Yea, i just converted the Samsung LED TV Spot to 1200 kbps, 1000 kbps and 800 kbps.

They all look the same on the S9! The quality comes down after 750 kbps.
However i encoded most of my films at 1200 kbps and don't have time to encode them 800 kbps back. Dang it.

abax44
07-27-2009, 13:25
Question about MediaCoder: I set it up as per the instructions in this thread and ran it. Everything was going well...it created the folder on my desktop, etc...but one it's all done I get a message "no file was outputted". Anyone have any idea what I'm doing wrong, and/or what I need to do to correct it?

Thanks

danielsl
07-29-2009, 04:59
Also converted some movies to H.264 with media-encoder. But I notice that 4 or 5 seconds there is a little hick-up during playing video. Very small but noticeable. When I convert it to WMV then this is not the case

Am I the only one with this?

htowngator
07-30-2009, 07:37
What program are you using to do the conversions?

lutscher
07-30-2009, 08:30
AVS Video Converter

htowngator
07-30-2009, 08:38
How do I transcode a mp4 to h264 so it will play on the S9?

danielsl
07-30-2009, 08:43
What program are you using to do the conversions?

mediacoder or dvdfab

htowngator
07-30-2009, 08:47
How do I transcode a mp4 to h264 so it will play on the S9?
Using mediacoder, preferably.

AVS is not free :)

tehownt
07-30-2009, 10:13
mencoder cmd-line is free and will work.
Othewise SUPER (is crappy but) will work too.

We should have a sticky (in a new Video sub-section) explaining how to configure each encoders in order to have H.264 videos playing on the S9.

Acreo Aeneas
07-30-2009, 10:23
SUPER's GUI may not be the best, but the converter is FFmpeg which is very good. I've managed to take h.264s with 5-8 channel AAC and convert to DivX AVIs with 2 channel audio.

htowngator
07-30-2009, 10:58
mencoder cmd-line is free and will work.
Othewise SUPER (is crappy but) will work too.

We should have a sticky (in a new Video sub-section) explaining how to configure each encoders in order to have H.264 videos playing on the S9.
Yea, I just tried to change a small mp4 file to avi using H264 and it didn't like it at all (even with the screen size being 480x272). Why is this difficult? lol

Acreo Aeneas
07-30-2009, 11:27
Yea, I just tried to change a small mp4 file to avi using H264 and it didn't like it at all (even with the screen size being 480x272). Why is this difficult? lol

That's because the AVI format/container doesn't support h.264 codec.

lutscher
07-30-2009, 11:30
If you can afford some money, i really suggest you AVS Video Converter.
It converts everything, it has a very nice GUI and it converts BluRay videos to S9 very fastly keeping the same quality (if you know how to set bitrate).

http://all-streaming-media.com/convert-audio-video-files/AVS-video-converter-Convert-video-WMV-ASF-RA-RM-MOV-QT-SWF-AVI-DIVX-MPEG-MP4-PSP-iPod-3GP-3G2-3GPP.htm

htowngator
07-30-2009, 12:53
That's because the AVI format/container doesn't support h.264 codec.

Well, I would love to be able to pay for AVS right now, but I think I'll just xvid the other items and worry about h264 for later.

Just so we're clear, the cowon can only play avi/wmv stuff right? What kind of mpeg video can it play? Certainly not mp4 (Apple/quicktime) but what else? Also, will it pretty much play any resolution or does it have to be minimized to 480x272?

Loba
07-30-2009, 12:59
not restricted to 480x272

Acreo Aeneas
07-30-2009, 13:22
Just so we're clear, the cowon can only play avi/wmv stuff right? What kind of mpeg video can it play? Certainly not mp4 (Apple/quicktime) but what else?

As far as it has been stated officially and by others who have tested, the S9 can play the following:

AVI + DivX 3/4/5/6
AVI + Xvid
WMV + WM9?
MP4 + limited h.264?
- (Someone needs to correct me on this.)

not restricted to 480x272

The maximum resolution that it can play is 800 x 480 according to one of the members here.

htowngator
07-30-2009, 13:30
not restricted to 480x272
What is the max size?

n/m

htowngator
07-30-2009, 13:30
As far as it has been stated officially and by others who have tested, the S9 can play the following:

AVI + DivX 3/4/5/6
AVI + Xvid
WMV + WM9?
MP4 + limited h.264?
- (Someone needs to correct me on this.)



The maximum resolution that it can play is 800 x 480 according to one of the members here.

I tried mp4 with 264 and it didn't work at all.

Acreo Aeneas
07-30-2009, 13:51
I tried mp4 with 264 and it didn't work at all.

Well several people here have said that the S9 can play h.264 vids, but I don't know what container they're using.

htowngator
07-30-2009, 14:31
Well several people here have said that the S9 can play h.264 vids, but I don't know what container they're using.
WMV maybe?

Acreo Aeneas
07-30-2009, 15:15
WMV maybe?

Maybe. If so, I didn't know WMV supported h.264 codec.

Adapada
07-30-2009, 15:21
Well several people here have said that the S9 can play h.264 vids, but I don't know what container they're using.
I used avi container encoded h.264

jmoz
07-30-2009, 15:50
I have used avi container with h.264 (see earlier in this thread). As for resolution, I have coded 4:3 programming (a DVD of a TV show) at 640x480 and it plays perfectly.

For those wondering why I chose that resolution- I'm using the TV-out cable to watch on a TV, which works well with the exception of the ocassional flicker.

tehownt
07-30-2009, 17:40
Ok I really don't mean to troll, but 2 things have sprung up in this thread which imo need slight precisions:

That's because the AVI format/container doesn't support h.264 codec.

IMO that's false: AVI container is oblivious to H.264, it's just that H.264 (Mpeg 4 layer 2 part 10) is not really the same generation as AVI and hence it's not "clean" to mux it in AVI.

If you can afford some money, i really suggest you AVS Video Converter.
It converts everything, it has a very nice GUI and it converts BluRay videos to S9 very fastly keeping the same quality (if you know how to set bitrate).


Also, regarding AVS Video Converter, they blatantly violate the GPL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPL) and the copyleft of ffmpeg code as noted in http://ffmpeg.org/shame.html and http://roundup.ffmpeg.org/roundup/ffmpeg/issue733.[thumbdwn] Plus they make you pay for that violation...

I personally would recommend to stay far away from it, especially while there are TONS of other FREE encoders available that do respect the license under which ffmpeg was developed and are able to transcode videos compatible with the S9.

... just my 2 cents.

Acreo Aeneas
07-30-2009, 17:49
Or just use FFmpeg with a GUI frontend (or the command line version).

@tehownt, Thanks for pointing that out. It may simply be a decoding issue then for whoever it was trying to convert MP4V into AVI + H.264.

lutscher
07-31-2009, 01:44
Also, regarding AVS Video Converter, they blatantly violate the GPL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPL) and the copyleft of ffmpeg code as noted in http://ffmpeg.org/shame.html and http://roundup.ffmpeg.org/roundup/ffmpeg/issue733.[thumbdwn] Plus they make you pay for that violation...

I personally would recommend to stay far away from it, especially while there are TONS of other FREE encoders available that do respect the license under which ffmpeg was developed and are able to transcode videos compatible with the S9.

... just my 2 cents.
Ahah also a lot of other converters are there. Look at the Hall of Shame list. There's included DVDFab, Xilisoft Converter and MediaCoder (the one you all are most using).

Anyway i'll stick always with AVS VC. I paid for it and i'll use it. But i still suggest it to everyone.

And as far as i tried only AVI supports H.264. H.264 without CABAC works perfectly. If you apply CABAC, the S9 won't just recognize it.

LukesRamen
08-06-2009, 21:44
AVS 6

.mkv converted to H.264 encoded with 1000

GURREN LAGANN LOOKS FREAKIN AMAZING.

lutscher
08-07-2009, 01:02
I told ya. AVS Converter is freakin amazing. :D

But i already did some tests. 800 has the same quality as 1000. Next time encode at 800 and you'll save space. :)

tehownt
08-07-2009, 07:10
AVS 6

.mkv converted to H.264 encoded with 1000

GURREN LAGANN LOOKS FREAKIN AMAZING.
You could try this out with other free converters that does not violate free software license (for instance SUPER) with the aforementionned settings: http://www.iaudiophile.net/forums/showpost.php?p=234152&postcount=7
or mencoder with the following command :

mencoder "<input_filename>" -ovc x264 -x264encopts pass=2:bitrate=1200:nocabac:trellis=1:psnr -vf scale=-10:272 -af volnorm=1 -oac mp3lame -lameopts cbr:br=128 -o "<output_filename.avi"you'll get the exact same result but without having paid a dime and in the process supporting the guys that spent incredible amount of time developing ffmpeg and open sourced it.

ffmpeg (libavcodec) is the core of so many fantastic video players and encoders out there (mplayer, vlc, etc...) it's only fair to try and use only those that respect the GPL in return.

Ryoma-Echizen
08-07-2009, 16:38
For the ones that know THORA, their 720p anime BD-rips looks great with 800Kbps (480x272 default mediacoder settings ~160MB's final archive)

http://rapidshare.com/files/264912171/Macross_Frontier_Ep18_Fold_Fame__480x272_BluRay_x2 64__-_THORA.avi

http://www.thoranime.org/

lutscher
08-08-2009, 01:23
Are you sure that you can get BluRay quality on the S9 with 800 kbps?

Has anyone tried to do some tests? I did some with DVD and 800, 1000 and 1200 kbps were the same.

How about BluRay? Can someone tell me what bitrate should i put in to get the same BluRay quality on the S9?

jmoz
08-08-2009, 13:19
Are you sure that you can get BluRay quality on the S9 with 800 kbps?

Has anyone tried to do some tests? I did some with DVD and 800, 1000 and 1200 kbps were the same.

How about BluRay? Can someone tell me what bitrate should i put in to get the same BluRay quality on the S9?

Umm, if I'm not mistaken, BluRay is an HD format, which means the resolution is 1080 (or 720). The screen on the S9 is 480x272, so you will never get better resolution than that on the screen. That is, a higher resolution image than that won't make any difference on the screen. Simply put, "BluRay quality on the S9" is not a meaningful term.

If you're using the TV out cable, that is a composite out cable, which means a 480p max resolution (i.e. 640x480 for 4:3 or X x 480 for different aspect ratios). In other words, I don't think there's ever any reason to use a higher resolution than X x 480 on the S9. Now, for X x 480, you might benefit from higher than 800kbps. I've been using 1000, and it looks like any standard definition source: good, but not perfect.

number5toad
08-08-2009, 17:25
That is all correct, jmoz.

Acreo Aeneas
08-08-2009, 21:49
Are you sure that you can get BluRay quality on the S9 with 800 kbps?

Has anyone tried to do some tests? I did some with DVD and 800, 1000 and 1200 kbps were the same.

How about BluRay? Can someone tell me what bitrate should i put in to get the same BluRay quality on the S9?

Umm, if I'm not mistaken, BluRay is an HD format, which means the resolution is 1080 (or 720). The screen on the S9 is 480x272, so you will never get better resolution than that on the screen. That is, a higher resolution image than that won't make any difference on the screen. Simply put, "BluRay quality on the S9" is not a meaningful term.

If you're using the TV out cable, that is a composite out cable, which means a 480p max resolution (i.e. 640x480 for 4:3 or X x 480 for different aspect ratios). In other words, I don't think there's ever any reason to use a higher resolution than X x 480 on the S9. Now, for X x 480, you might benefit from higher than 800kbps. I've been using 1000, and it looks like any standard definition source: good, but not perfect.

Something else worth mentioning: Blu-Ray is HD content. Meaning, 800 kbps video bitrate isn't even DVD quality much less HD quality. Most HD downloads are nowhere near HD standards (meaning 13 mbps+ bitrate at least if it's a 720p HD video). Even then, BRs can go as high as 50 mbps, meaning each second of video equals to 50 MBs being read and processed.

For some comparison, DVD quality video usually falls between 1.5 mbps and 11 mbps. Where a certain video falls on that range depends on the length of the video and whether or not the DVD is a single-layer or a dual-layer (and ultimately the company producing the DVDs).

So if you're falling all over your "HD" content. Think again. The infrastructure to support streaming/downloading of HD content just doesn't exist yet. That is a lot of bandwidth and server space we're talking about. Not to mention consumer lines in the U.S. (or elsewhere) aren't even up to speed, much less a home network that can achieve optical-cable network routing (which is really expensive).

number5toad
08-08-2009, 22:19
as long as we're on the subject, I'll toss in that the reason Blu-Ray video quality is so beefy is that it's meant to be shown on really, really large displays

on a display the size and quality of your S9, you simply don't need either that resolution or that bitrate for an outstanding and detailed picture

LittleNightmare
08-09-2009, 10:03
AVS 6 doesn't sync the audio and subs correctly when I go from .mkv to H.264. Guess I'll go back to super.

About a 50 sec sample of karas for those who care.
http://rapidshare.com/files/265491751/sample1.mpg.html

Edit. Syncing of the sound is off in all encodes. Mkv or not. Starts off fine but the longer the video goes the less in sync it becomes.

Acreo Aeneas
08-09-2009, 11:09
Did you match the framerate to the original source? Usually digital videos are 23.976, 25, 29.97, 30, or a full 60 (rare). If the audio is lagging behind, that means your re-encode is set to a faster-than-source framerate.

LittleNightmare
08-09-2009, 11:18
I believe so. These are my current settings.

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/3005/24299612.jpg

LukesRamen
08-09-2009, 11:54
From the samples I've converted so far,

SUPER has SIGNIFICANTLY less pixelation than AVS. Looks like I'm reencoding everything using SUPER.

But my only question is, how do you set original frame rate?

I've tried setting it to a number, eg. 30, and it goes right back to 25 when I click MORE and click on it again.

Does this mean any number higher than the original frame rate is going to just encode using original?

O, and should I use FFmpeg or MEncoder? What's the difference?

man... SUPER is just SUPER.

tehownt
08-09-2009, 21:16
From the samples I've converted so far,

SUPER has SIGNIFICANTLY less pixelation than AVS. Looks like I'm reencoding everything using SUPER.

But my only question is, how do you set original frame rate?

I've tried setting it to a number, eg. 30, and it goes right back to 25 when I click MORE and click on it again.

Does this mean any number higher than the original frame rate is going to just encode using original?

O, and should I use FFmpeg or MEncoder? What's the difference?

man... SUPER is just SUPER.

Honestly, that looks a lot like a bug from the GUI.
What I could advise is to get "Mediainfo", it's free and works really well, it'll give you the source file framerate and all the other info with a contextual menu, so that you can select all the correct settings in SUPER.
SUPER's GUI really is bugful and sometimes "jumps around" and reset settings... But it works and does a fine H.264 mkv->avi conversion.

Also, you could either use ffmpeg or mencoder, whichever is fastest, as I wrote previously it shouldn't make any big difference because the underlying code is mostly the one from ffmpeg (mencoder is built upon ffmpeg).

I'd recomend trying both on a small sample to see if you have any format or speed difference, I'm using mencoder, just because I know it works but I haven't tried with ffmpeg anyways...

LukesRamen
08-09-2009, 21:49
Thanks for the reply tehownt.

I guess my expectations were just a little high. Using the media info tool built into SUPER, I've grouped all the episodes by framerate.

This way, I can just batch convert by manually matching the framerate with that of the video.

Kinda complex for video conversion, but I think it's worth it.

It looks REALLY good. Everyone using AVS, switch to SUPER.

lutscher
08-10-2009, 00:35
I just used SUPER some years ago and i didn't really like it.
Anyway seems that you got problem yourself cause for me nothing happens like that.

I'd suggest you also MediaCoder. I used it time ago to encode my Samsung P2 movies and it works really good.

LukesRamen
08-10-2009, 11:04
I just tried MediaCoder, but I'm sticking with SUPER.

But I'm curious, what are those "Player Options" at the bottom of SUPER? Do they have anything to do with the encoding?

tehownt
08-10-2009, 20:43
I just tried MediaCoder, but I'm sticking with SUPER.

But I'm curious, what are those "Player Options" at the bottom of SUPER? Do they have anything to do with the encoding?

I think SUPER comes with a video player embedded so those might be its options.
Never used it thouhg, VLC, mplayer and/or MPC-HC do a very fine job.

LukesRamen
08-10-2009, 21:36
I think SUPER comes with a video player embedded so those might be its options.
Never used it thouhg, VLC, mplayer and/or MPC-HC do a very fine job.

For a video PLAYER, I'm sticking with Media Player Classic. It's the lightest and most efficient, especially if used with CoreAVC.

M3Rocket
08-21-2009, 19:16
Has anyone got the x264 settings to work with MediaCoder 0.7.1.4493? It seems like whatever I set the profile to (Baseline required), Mediainfo always reports that the resultant AVI format profile is "High@L2.2" I think this is the only thing preventing the converted files from playing on my S9.

Ryoma-Echizen
08-23-2009, 16:38
I use mc 0.7.0.4399. No problem there.

M3Rocket
08-24-2009, 13:19
I reverted to 0.6.2.4275, and it works fine. Version 0.7.1.4493 definitely has a problem writing a S9-compatible Baseline AVC/x264 encode into an AVI container. I didn't use 0.7.0.4399 because of the documented cropping problems.

snuffed
08-25-2009, 01:45
0.7.1.4490 seems to have no problems

memolo
10-20-2009, 14:35
Is it possible to output videos with variable bit rate with Super? what is the max bit rate supported by the s9?

Klockare
11-16-2009, 09:46
I've played h.264 files before, some months ago, but now it won't work.
Anyone with Claws and FW 2.5 having it working?
(Xvid works fine)

TackyTiger
11-16-2009, 10:26
I've played h.264 files before, some months ago, but now it won't work.
Anyone with Claws and FW 2.5 having it working?
(Xvid works fine)

Videos I made with MEncoder a while ago are still working in 2.5 (x264/MP3/AVI)

For the record, with x264encopts of nocabac:subq=6:trellis=1

b1urrc0ck
04-02-2010, 08:08
i just checked out other threads but couldnt find a working H264 avi preset for the latest MC. anyone could create a high quality H264 avi preset for me?

One last thing, how to make sure the audio go in sync with the video, i tried using cowon to convert last time but youtube video cannot go in sync with my S9 it seems.

sameer
04-02-2010, 08:47
i just checked out other threads but couldnt find a working H264 avi preset for the latest MC. anyone could create a high quality H264 avi preset for me?

One last thing, how to make sure the audio go in sync with the video, i tried using cowon to convert last time but youtube video cannot go in sync with my S9 it seems.

Heres settings for h264 video and AAC audio,however these settings only work in Mediacoder 0.7.2 build 4530,if you want to use latest build please change your audio codec to mp3 and container to .avi,rest settings will work with any build.

Sync errors mainly cause due to change in framerate of video,try keeping the frame rate of video as"Same as Source".

Hope it works.
http://iaudiophile.net/forums/showpost.php?p=279760&postcount=2

b1urrc0ck
04-02-2010, 11:38
Heres settings for h264 video and AAC audio,however these settings only work in Mediacoder 0.7.2 build 4530,if you want to use latest build please change your audio codec to mp3 and container to .avi,rest settings will work with any build.

Sync errors mainly cause due to change in framerate of video,try keeping the frame rate of video as"Same as Source".

Hope it works.
http://iaudiophile.net/forums/showpost.php?p=279760&postcount=2

can i change the video settings like the video quality?

blackriders
04-02-2010, 16:43
can i change the video settings like the video quality?

yeah, during my test I went as high as 900.

sameer
04-02-2010, 17:33
can i change the video settings like the video quality?


Obviously yes,these are NOT the ONLY settings you can use just fool around with the settings,and see if they work.
Thanks.

b1urrc0ck
04-02-2010, 23:18
it played well on my pc. However the video looked screwed up on the S9. Im using the preset that you have given, changed the audio to mp3 using LAME mp3 and the container to avi. Changed setting to 2-pass and converting @ 768 kbps.

Mediacoder version is 0.73.4606 cos the new version seem to cause some problems

sameer
04-04-2010, 03:21
it played well on my pc. However the video looked screwed up on the S9. Im using the preset that you have given, changed the audio to mp3 using LAME mp3 and the container to avi. Changed setting to 2-pass and converting @ 768 kbps.

Mediacoder version is 0.73.4606 cos the new version seem to cause some problems


Its strange coz the same settings work great in my S9,try the version i said to use though its pretty hard to find that version,if you cant find it pm me i'll upload it for you,and use nero aac codec,download Nero AAC codec from nero's website(or just Google it) and place the contents of the archive in codec directory of Mediacoder.

b1urrc0ck
04-09-2010, 11:22
Its strange coz the same settings work great in my S9,try the version i said to use though its pretty hard to find that version,if you cant find it pm me i'll upload it for you,and use nero aac codec,download Nero AAC codec from nero's website(or just Google it) and place the contents of the archive in codec directory of Mediacoder.

took your advice and yups it working finally =) im using tt version of yours

sameer
04-13-2010, 09:04
took your advice and yups it working finally =) im using tt version of yours

Glad I can help [smile]

b1urrc0ck
04-17-2010, 09:12
the new version of mediacoder is out. Can someone post a working setting for it?

sameer
04-17-2010, 10:35
the new version of mediacoder is out. Can someone post a working setting for it?


Theres an update every week i guess,heres a working preset.

b1urrc0ck
04-17-2010, 12:26
Theres an update every week i guess,heres a working preset.

it must be in mp3 isit? cant i use back mp4 and aac?

JUST tested your presets. It's not workin -.-"

sameer
04-17-2010, 18:22
it must be in mp3 isit? cant i use back mp4 and aac?

JUST tested your presets. It's not workin -.-"

Mp4+AAC doesn't work with latest build.You have to use Avi+Mp3.
Settings are working fine for me though.

Change the profile to "Baseline" if its not.

b1urrc0ck
04-17-2010, 20:13
Mp4+AAC doesn't work with latest build.You have to use Avi+Mp3.
Settings are working fine for me though.

Change the profile to "Baseline" if its not.

there's no video output on my S9?

sameer
04-17-2010, 20:37
there's no video output on my S9?

Can you please post 'mediainfo' of the video?

sameer
04-17-2010, 20:42
there's no video output on my S9?

if possible try uploading the output video i'll see what i can do.

b1urrc0ck
04-17-2010, 20:49
General
Complete name : K:\Video\10.avi
Format : AVI
Format/Info : Audio Video Interleave
File size : 33.6 MiB
Duration : 4mn 0s
Overall bit rate : 1 173 Kbps
Writing application : Lavf52.61.0

Video
ID : 0
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Codec ID : H264
Duration : 4mn 0s
Bit rate : 1 000 Kbps
Width : 480 pixels
Height : 272 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.255
Stream size : 28.6 MiB (85%)

Audio
ID : 1
Format : MPEG Audio
Format version : Version 1
Format profile : Layer 3
Format_Settings_Mode : Joint stereo
Format_Settings_ModeExtension : MS Stereo
Codec ID : 55
Codec ID/Hint : MP3
Duration : 4mn 0s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 160 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 44.1 KHz
Stream size : 4.58 MiB (14%)
Alignment : Aligned on interleaves
Interleave, duration : 26 ms (0.78 video frame)
Writing library : LAME3.98.4


here thks for the help =)

sameer
04-17-2010, 21:05
here thks for the help =)

I guess trouble is resolved.

If not try changing the the audio channel from "Joint Stereo" to "Stereo"

b1urrc0ck
04-17-2010, 23:27
i tried but still no video output. strange -.-

sameer
04-18-2010, 03:53
i tried but still no video output. strange -.-

Can you please post the screen shots of the settings of "Mediacoder",i'll what i can do.

superaki
04-24-2010, 08:18
do you lose quality when changing one form of H.264 to another?

dfkt
04-24-2010, 08:25
You basically always lose some quality when you transcode a movie, no matter if to the same or another codec. If you choose a high enough bitrate, it might be negligible though.

alydr
12-30-2010, 10:58
Can't believe this thread is still around! Maybe just because the S9 isn't so cutting-edge anymore... Sorry to see all my pictures and samples are gone though, lost to dead servers and probably a DMCA takedown on that trailer quality comparison thing on Mediafire.

I'm probably going to make another how-to post on this subject since I just dug my S9 out of the drawer and I'm probably going to be giving it away. I'd like to at least be able to say "this is how to put video on it and have it work".

I've got an HTC Desire now. Nowhere near the sound quality, I'm sorry to say - too much electronics in too small a package I guess. Aside from the background hiss and whatnot they probably didn't go with an audiophile-level DSP. On the other hand, it's so much more versatile and a lot easier to work with. For video, you download one of a handful of free "universal" video players (VLC's not out yet, but should be in early 2011), and it plays just about anything you throw at it - CABAC, high profile stuff, etc. 800x480 on a screen only like half an inch diagonally larger than the S9, you can probably imagine, the video quality is out of this world.

Um... back on topic, I'll probably be putting together that guide later today or by next week at the latest, and likely in a new thread since this one has so much broken, contradictory, and out-of-date information.

Abhishekk
01-21-2011, 17:05
i wish they add .MKV support so we can run Blu ray Rips in 600 mb