Cowon S9 - best sound so far

[Pete_S]

I realise a lot of threads exist about this topic already, but I'm so pleased I wanted to reinforce the message for anyone considering the S9.

I've worked in audio equipment retail for many years, I get to hear most of the top audiophile brands and think I know a good sound when I come across it.

I've used, and still have, iRiver H100 and 320/340, and Cowon D2 and Q5. I thought the D2 was good (though I always missed something the iRivers had, especially in the bass) but the S9 has proved exceptional, better by quite a margin than anything else I've owned.

It's only a few weeks old, it sounded good from the start, now it's even better as it's "burnt in". I'm listening to tracks I thought I knew inside out and hearing new detail and subtlety in them. Compared to the D2, already a very good player, there's definitely more detail with the S9. Not only can you hear more going on in the mix, the textures of the instruments are more real too, as are the nuances of how they're being played.

It's like having a decent hi-fi on the move, and I only use cheap Sennheisers (25 Pounds in the UK). I can only guess what better phones would do. I use my S9 mainly whilst commuting, and now have difficulty reading a paper at the same time because the sound distracts me it's so good! I put video on the S9 but haven't watched it yet because I'm still captivated by the music!

So for anyone not sure yet, forget the rest, get the S9 if it's natural yet detailed and exciting sound your concerned about, you won't regret it [biggrin].

If you prefer a flat, tinny, two dimensional cardboard cut-out type sound, get an iPod Touch. You can always watch video or play games instead of listening to it. Or if you're a masochist, get an Archos. Even worse sounding than the iPod, and always going wrong into the bargain (I've got a 605).

[Headcased]

nice to hear but the big test is do you like bose (i don't)

[Pete_S]

nice to hear but the big test is do you like bose (i don't)

Err, what's that got to do with it [excited]

If you mean Bose speakers, no I don't. I haven't heard their earphones.

[Headcased]

bose just seem to think they are the best when there not just my opinion

[zantoz24]

Pete S: how are you setting the JetEffect? or what you think is the best JetEffect configuration?

[Headcased]

you peopleoid's might like to know that the s9 shares the same codec as the ipod touch

[PowerTorsk]

^^ What was that supposed to mean? "peopleodis"? Write in English, please...

The Sansa Clip actually sounds better than the S9. Better soundstage, and the instruments are separated better. This is from my experience, and yes, I do have both players with the excact same file/volume. (This result is from using Creative Aurvana X-Fi headphones.)

[da1writer]

you peopleodis might like to know that the s9 shares the same codec as the ipod touch
True but apple products don't have BBE+ or good EQ settings, which the S9 has and make music sound even better than before...
Also, the S9 sounds a bit warmer, clearer, and music separation is a whole lot better than apples crap.

I kinda have to agree with PowerTorsk, the clip (which I have also) for some reason sounds better being flat (no EQ or sound enhancements) than the S9 sound being flat (no EQ or sound enhancements). Whatever was in that device should be put in Cowon's next device(s) in my opinion...

[Headcased]

just for the record i hate apple just as much as you guys

Humanoid is a word hybrid term, just like peopleoid. The term was coined in 1918 when it was used to refer to fossils considered close to human but not strictly human and even homosapien. oh i know it wrong above will fix. so it old but still english.

[Pete_S]

Pete S: how are you setting the JetEffect? or what you think is the best JetEffect configuration?

I use the EQ set at +5dB at 80Hz and +1dB at 13kHz and in addition have Mach3Bass set at 7

My instinct is against EQ, but I love bass and the cheap Sennheisers don't have much of their own. especially when they keep working loose in my ears http://iaudiophile.net/forums/images/smilies2/yes.gif Also prefer a slight treble lift, but I'm not a "spring chicken" any more...

Headcase: just 'cos the Touch and the S9 share the same chip doesn't mean they'll sound the same, a lot of other things affect SQ too: choice of other components, layout, power supply etc Anyway, they evidentally don't sound the same http://iaudiophile.net/forums/images/smilies2/rofl.gif

Apple aren't known for understanding what makes things sound good. Look good, feel good, yes, but not sound good. IMHO. Cowon are, they've even got an "audiophile" in charge, I believe.

PowerTorsk: If the Clip really is even better, it's the bargain of the century!

The Cowon EQ seems very good for a "digital domain" EQ system, most others I've heard aren't that good (like the one in TCPMP on a PPC for example, or the iPod one). One of the best I liked previously was the "analogue" bass and treble controls on the iRivers, a feature of the Philips chipset they used. Still can't quite match that bass on the S9.

[Headcased]

good news the wolfson codec on the s9 is 24bit just look at the digital audio data timeing (pcm). This just get's better and better

[Headcased]

As for the competent thing I quite heartedly agree, but it's not that simple with smd devices in 3216 and 4516 packages. There would be a difference between tantalum and ceramic caps. But most smd are of good quality. Smd pretty much don't fall fowl to inductance or high resistances at termination points. Also not forgetting better component characteristics with respect to leaded parts, with less rf interference as well.


As for the power thing pretty much any device that using CMOS chip will not be very stable if there was fluctuations in emf. And besides it battery powered lithium ion polymer batteries have no problemes with respect to delivering emf.


As for better engineered, with respect to the actual circuit. This is the place were cowon win by not taking audio lines near any high frequency parts reduces overall rf interference of the device.


Anyway the codec in the s9 has it own reversion (have not seen it anywhere else)

[Pete_S]

Damn you, PowerTorsk, I went out and bought a Clip! Didn't need it, got x music players already, very happy with the S9 etc etc. I hold you responsible http://iaudiophile.net/forums/images/smilies2/excited.gif

It's exactly as you say. Super detailed. Just don't use the equaliser. But no folder browsing. Agghh... at least ten albums disappeared http://iaudiophile.net/forums/images/smilies2/ohmy.gif

Still love the S9, nice to have the Clip for travelling light and player abuse situations!

[Headcased]

More good news pete soon you will be able to have rockbox on the click saw this on daniel’s blog

http://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2008/11/09/rockbox-coming-along-on-sansa-v2s/

cheers

[dfkt]

But no folder browsing. Agghh... at least ten albums disappeared

Here's a good app to "fake" folder browsing on the Clip: http://anythingbutipod.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41782

[Pete_S]

Thanks Headcase & dfkt for the info. I'll report on the Cowon vs Clip more when I've got used to the Clip (and when it's "burned in"). Initial thoughts on the Clip are that it just might have a slight boost in the "presence" part of the frequency spectrum (even when played "flat") leading to the impression of mega-detail. Then again, I might be talking out of my a**e!

I can't be bothered normally with geeky things, but I'm tempted to make up an mp3 test track with tones from 20Hz to 20kHz and actually measure the S9 vs Clip when set to "Normal".

We'd better return to the Superb Cowon S9 before the mods move this post to the abi Clip forum [rofl]

[dfkt]

I can't be bothered normally with geeky things, but I'm tempted to make up an mp3 test track with tones from 20Hz to 20kHz and actually measure the S9 vs Clip when set to "Normal".

Did that already... ;)

http://rmaa.elektrokrishna.com/Comparisons/Comparison%20-%2016%20Ohm%20-%20Clip,%20D2,%20YP-U1,%20Vibez.htm
http://rmaa.elektrokrishna.com/Comparisons/S9,%20O2,%20D2,%20X5%20-%2016%20Ohm%20Loads,%20Full%20Volume.htm

Didn't merge the S9 vs. Clip comparisons, but the differences are pretty obvious anyways when looking at both RMAA comparisons.

[Pete_S]

Wow. That's some comprehensive test. Looks like I'll have to eat humble pie then. The Clip has the flattest frequency response of the lot. Looks like someone drew it with a ruler [biggrin] In fact it's the Cowons which have the slight upward trend in the upper mids. Must get my ears tested...

Thanks, dfkt

[Pete_S]

I've passed on my new 4GB Sansa Clip to my iPod loving partner as an "early birthday present". It was affecting my love affair with the S9 which had been complete until the Clip.
She's utterly bowled over by it, told me several times how music she thought she knew well sounds completely different now [Laugh]
At last she's seen the light after many years of iPods.

So now I'm back in love with the S9 again, enjoying the extra bass and the silky midrange, both lacking in the Clip.

Not that I'm ruling out an 8GB Clip for when the weather gets better and i can leave my jacket at home [cool]

[kasrhp]

^^ What was that supposed to mean? "peopleodis"? Write in English, please...

The Sansa Clip actually sounds better than the S9. Better soundstage, and the instruments are separated better. This is from my experience, and yes, I do have both players with the excact same file/volume. (This result is from using Creative Aurvana X-Fi headphones.)

How are those headphones? I looked into getting those, but could not find out too much info on them. I got the Sony mdr NC60 instead, love em, but always wondered about the Aurvana's.

[audioee]

Good links posted by dfkt. I took my own measurements using an Audio Precision System 2. I used 16 Ohm resistive dummy loads and the test signal was a 1kHz, 0dB sine track in FLAC, ripped from a professional test CD (Abex).

I did'nt know that one could use the line in cable and get a pass through which is what the previous links imply they did. I'll have to try that.

S9
Max Volume (40)
Left Channel: 689.2mV, 0.036%THD, S/N= -93.7dB (A-weighted filter)
Right Channel: 670.3mV, 0.030%THD, S/N= -93.5dB (A-weighted filter)
This is approximately 30mW. Gain difference L/R is 0.25dB

50% Volume (20)
Left Channel: 24.64mV, 0.048%THD, S/N= -73.5dB (A-weighted filter)
Right Channel: 24.54mV, 0.045%THD, S/N= -73.5dB (A-weighted filter)

For comparison, I measured an ipod classic (Gen 5) the same way (but using mp3 instead of FLAC)
Max Volume
Left Channel: 634mV, 8.5%THD, S/N= -80dB (A-weighted filter)
Right Channel: 646mV, 9.5%THD, S/N= -80dB (A-weighted filter)
This is approximately 25mW. Gain difference L/R is 0.21dB

50% Volume
Left Channel: 28mV, 0.244%THD, S/N= -52dB (A-weighted filter)
Right Channel: 20mV, 0.35%THD, S/N= -52dB (A-weighted filter)