View Full Version : O2 UI: Taking matters in our own hands
http://www.anythingbutipod.com/archives/2009/02/cowon-d2-user-interface-on-the-o2.php
http://www.anythingbutipod.com/archives/images/d2-o2-1.jpg
EDIT: I don't agree 100% with the article EnzoTen wrote. While the D2 interface is certainly better in many aspects than the O2's, I would definitely prefer a variant of the S9 interface on the O2. It's just more modern, and has even better usability. Not to mention it would give Cowon some "identity", when players from the same generation have similar interfaces (just like iPods, Zunes, Creatives, etc).
So I personally would love something along these lines:
http://anythingbutipod.com/images/forum/dfkt/o2/P2050239-mod1.jpg
http://anythingbutipod.com/images/forum/dfkt/o2/P2050239-mod2.jpg
I was happy for just a second, but then reality set in. What a great mock-up, That UI would finally do the O2 justice. Thanks dfkt, for the dream.
too much of a tease when will it be a reality
The gist of that news post is that we have direct contact to an O2 firmware programmer now. Everything else will show in the future...
Dalmane98
02-05-2009, 17:09
I'd buy one with the D2 GUI, if they fix the problem with the way you have to select between the SDHC card & Internal Memory.
At least the O2 played all of my OGG files which is more than the S9 does...
I want for my O2 a better interface than the ipod has. This is a new product so the UI must be new also. The ideea of putting the D2's interface on the O2 is like putting a 2 generations back engine on a new Corvette for instance. I think that the actual UI is a blasphemy[thumbdwn], and changing it with an already out-of-date interface, is confirming this PMP's end. What the O2 needs, its that sparkling ideea of software functionality wich combined with its solid hardware, could result in a best seller of all times in PMP/MP3P market. But these are dreams...
Did you ever use the D2? Do you think the O2's interface has better usability (or even looks) than the D2's?
Did you ever use the D2? Do you think the O2's interface has better usability (or even looks) than the D2's?
Sure that the D2 is a god over the O2 in matters of UI, but what I want to say is that they need work to come with a new concept of UI, rather than working for implementing something already aged. Is a matter of perspective. Sure, I preffer the D2's UI over this crap they installed on the O2, at all times.
Man, that would be so cool. Look at the size of those buttons! That's the way it's supposed to be. I feel like I'm picking up ants with chopsticks when I browse files now.
Poor O2...it's like a swimsuit model with the face of Karl Malden (http://www.geocities.com/tina4her/malden.jpg). But things like this give me hope.
Thanks for this, dfkt. Be great to see if this goes somewhere.
I want for my O2 a better interface than the ipod has. This is a new product so the UI must be new also. The ideea of putting the D2's interface on the O2 is like putting a 2 generations back engine on a new Corvette for instance. I think that the actual UI is a blasphemy[thumbdwn], and changing it with an already out-of-date interface, is confirming this PMP's end. What the O2 needs, its that sparkling ideea of software functionality wich combined with its solid hardware, could result in a best seller of all times in PMP/MP3P market. But these are dreams...
The D2's Standard UI would be an improvement to the O2's. Two years old or not, it would still be alot better than the clunky new one they like to pass for a UI on the O2[blink]
ROFL, Tpilk... that made me laugh. We can only hope it gives Cowon's firmware staff a nudge in the right direction.
The D2's Standard UI would be an improvement to the O2's. Two years old or not, it would still be alot better than the clunky new one they like to pass for a UI on the O2[blink]
Agreed!
ROFL, Tpilk... that made me laugh. We can only hope it gives Cowon's firmware staff a nudge in the right direction.
Haha, anytime. Glad I brightened someone's day! I'll be watching this thread with great interest.
i'd think COWON would have something to say about this. i think this is a BAD idea. this is just my opinion though. leave the GUI alone!
eh, do what you want lol
In the end though, it's a choice the user would make. If people are happy with things the way they are, no need to perform further firmware updates.
Who knows, since we're just riffing here, why not implement the same kind of thing you find in windows XP and Vista, where you can choose "classic" if you don't like the way the other themes look.
Morfesto
02-05-2009, 19:28
What would be nice is if they came out with some Development tools so we can make our own GUI.
Then you could have what ever you wanted.
Hello, I am Ludd from the UK. The O2 is nice but the GUI could be made much better. This is a good idea to bring better GUI. If this is done I think the O2 will be very superior and powerful.....Thanks......
I am wondering how this will be achieved and how soon we can see it happen? Weeks or months?
Also I think that GUI used is in the mock-up very ugly and dull.....please also add more sleek and good-looking ones like Cassini's and maybe the ones for the S9. That last picture has skip buttons on the video.....why? Please do not try to fix what is not broken, all that needs upgrading is the file browser, main menu, gestures(swiping, drawing semicircles etc etc) and general size of icons, that is all please. The video and song now playing menus are visually better as it is, the ones in the mockup are ugly and cluttered, video overlays are never a good idea.
the main menu is fine...its the browser...the text is too small...
the only thing i would change about main menu is being able to change the color of the font...or even just remove the text so that i can have nice backgrounds
i like this potential new UI...but it would be nice to choose whatever icons we want...or atleast pick from a set of them...those mock-up icons are uglier than all hell...and PLEASE dont use the square O2 icons with the D2 format...it would look too much like the ipod touch
i think instead of fixing the UI they should put some flash support and a dream to me would be j2me. the UI is good, and its no ipod but its just because the o2 just isn't trying to be one. the thing that apart the more 'popular' players is all the small things around it, the little games, fun programs [wouldn't it be cool to have a touch piano for the o2? as a programmer, its not that hard..], the problem is that the developers left it to us to make games and softwares for it and thats the downgrade. because it loses much of its potential as a great player.
btw maybe a little smooth scrolling on the files themself and not the side bar could make the browsing better but its not a big deal.
the main menu is fine...its the browser...the text is too small...
the only thing i would change about main menu is being able to change the color of the font...or even just remove the text so that i can have nice backgrounds
i like this potential new UI...but it would be nice to choose whatever icons we want...or atleast pick from a set of them...those mock-up icons are uglier than all hell...and PLEASE dont use the square O2 icons with the D2 format...it would look too much like the ipod touch
I second that. I actually like the main menu(except font color, make changeable!!). I like just having the couple of normal every day icons on the front page. More real estate for the wallpaper. Plus, i really like the look of the now playing audio screen. The mock up on the now playing is a lot more dated and archaic. The o2 uses the whole the big screen very well now. The album art looks excellent while taking up half the screen, its great. Plus, the ability to change the settings by basically scrolling through a couple options while not leaving now playing screen is really nice too. Bigger buttons would be nice, but I woud not want to detract from that overall look for now playing.
I added some more personal thoughts to the first post in this thread...
BTW, I can't really grasp why people call the D2 interface "dated"... the O2 looks like friggin' Windows 3.11 - the D2 looks like XP in comparison (and the S9 like Vista or Win7). ;)
Ok the S9 GUI will be better than D2. But please remember to keep it unique to the O2 in terms of the settings and colour scheme. S9 isn't "all that". Maybe it is just the mock-ups, but I don't like the amount of screen real-estate the overlays are covering and the size of those menu options are ridiculous, way tooo big, there are so few files actually listed on the screen. No, keep the O2's fundamental features and general GUI and just make it much more finger-friendly with some gesture support and smooth scrolling, and icon-size.
Best solution is to allow customizability just like the S9. Porting the entire S9 GUI to the O2 will not be the best since S9 GUI is probably optimized for capacitative touchscreen and accelerometer. Not to mention those video-manipulation overlays (play/pause/forward bar on the bottom) are nearly identical to those of the ipod touch....seriously speaking if I wanted the that user interface I would have bought an ipod. Haha, just a little joke but.....DFKT are u secretly an ipod fanboy? Just kidding! I know very well u r not. LOL!
Good job with the mockups though, they are very very VERY well done, I think I know how they are done but it still looks very real!
Those are just basic ideas, nothing is to be taken literally. It's just some quick & dirty mockups, for crying out loud. [rolleyes]
Of course the proportions of menu points and icons would be different on a 4.3" screen than on a 3.3" or 2.5" one. But the point is that the O2 is very finger-unfriendly, and icons, scrollbars, and text need to be bigger. Of course customization and choice of your personal color preferences would be optimal.
I'm not an iPod fanboy, but I detest counterintuitive interfaces made by colorblind interns that are stuck in the 1990ies. So yes, iPod, Zune, and Creative interfaces look a lot more clean and appealing to me. ;)
"Any man who afflicts the human race with ideas must be prepared to see them misunderstood." H. L. Mencken
Oh SoRrY...... I understand, just wanted to make things clear about a direct port from the S9 to the O2. I like the base colours of the O2 but the font colours need changing, I agree. Creative interfaces are my favourite followed by Zune, then Archos then ipod and cowon is last......at least for the O2....maybe S9 and D2 GUI's will score higher than other companies since they offer file tree browsing
Come to think of it , based on GUI alone other companies do well, but if we take file-tree browsing into account Archos leads closely followed by cowon cos no other company even bothers to allow folder browsing. I haven'y used any other comapanies device that has folder browsing apart from archos and cowon. Are there any? If you know any please inform me......thank you.
soulpower
02-06-2009, 08:43
thanks dfkt for getting in touch with cowon.
i hope somebody can make a program to change the icons and colors like i could with my old h320. we used to use H3Mod to do that.
SP:jamming:
That S9 UI mock up makes me want an 02 dfkt! :-)
Here's a little heads up:
DFKT and i put together a list of fixes and suggested this UI fix and set it off to one of the firmware programmers. I got a response from Cowon on this, they seem excited about it and are strongly recommending the changes and agree that UI changes must be made in the next firmware update. Something very good might come out of this. =)
Thats fantastic. Maybe I dont mind the o2 main menu too much because I really like my wallpaper, so it looks fantastic. To me, all in all, I would prefer the bottom row of options to be bigger.
Fantastic.....I hope it's sooner rather than later
Here's a little heads up:
That's great news! And I'd be equally happy with the S9 UI.
Compared to the stripped-down ATM interface we have now, anything from any of their other touchscreen players would probably be a step up.
nintendude7cubed
02-06-2009, 16:17
I would definitely prefer a variant of the S9 interface on the O2.
I would actually dislike the s9 interface a lot... Many aspects of the s9's interface easily make it titled "Ipod knockoff" And for me (and a site such as anythingBUTipod.com), that would be the very last thing we need...
I gotta admit after taking a second glance, i would actually like that front menu on the o2 to remain the same. but once you enter the submenus, thats where i want the d2 interface. ooh and keep the 10 band eq (cuz the d2 only has 5)
10 band aint going anywhere
nintendude7cubed
02-06-2009, 21:50
10 band aint going anywhere
I know but i was just saying.. cuz there are people who want the d2 interface so bad and the d2 interface has only a 5 band eq versus the o2 interface which has the 10.. of course cowon is smarter than that and wouldn't sacrafice any aspect of its sound quality for interface.
Morfesto
02-06-2009, 22:52
I added some more personal thoughts to the first post in this thread...
BTW, I can't really grasp why people call the D2 interface "dated"... the O2 looks like friggin' Windows 3.11 - the D2 looks like XP in comparison (and the S9 like Vista or Win7). ;)
Just a side note win3.1 is prolly a bad comparison since it doesn't have a task bar..... :P So a better comparison may have been 95 98 or 2000.
nintendude7cubed
02-07-2009, 22:38
Here's a little heads up:
Can we see this list? i want to know exactly what you said so i can get all pumped for (assumingly) o2 version 2.0
Like i said before, i'd prefer the d2 theme instead of the s9 so nobody calls it an iphone knockoff.. Really what should happen is change every aspect of the ui to which is best between the s9, o2, and d2. Maybe take the o2's front menu and combine it with s9's music/video selecting interface and video playback interface, and top it off with the d2's ingenious music playback interface. That would really give the o2 an original twist. by the way, does anybody know the exact speed of the o2's processor? knowing this will determine exactly how far they can take the ui.
keep the cowon o2 main menu, and use the s9 browser...niceeee
Am I the only one who likes the now playing screen(audio)?
nope, I like it too, anything that tampers with the main menu screen (apart from fonts and font colour), the now playing screen, the GUI base colour set and the way the option bar at the bottom of the video and audio playing screens is setup will not go down too well with me, I've gotten used to the O2's GUI, the learning curve is steep but once you master it you find it isn't bad. It is certainly new and refreshing and extremely simple to use......
The only place I really want to see improvements is in the file browser, fonts and font colours, speed of response, gesture support and general size of certain things. keep the main menu, the music playing screen, and the general setup of the menu bar at the bottom of video and music playback at all costs.
Dalmane98
02-08-2009, 10:47
Just a side note win3.1 is prolly a bad comparison since it doesn't have a task bar.....
It sort of had a Task Bar...It was called Program manager...IIRC you could select different Icons across the bottom...Applications, Games etc...
Would have to load it to be sure...I do have an old 386 Server Class Machine with NT 4.0 loaded on it in storage...
I still have a copy of Windows for Workgroups 3.11 and Windows 95, 98 & 2000...:P
Back OT, If they make file browsing like the D2, integrate the internal and SDHC card and change the Icons, I would buy another O2...or at least try it again...
nintendude7cubed
02-08-2009, 12:36
Am I the only one who likes the now playing screen(audio)?
It's decent, but the d2 made it look more like you actually had to touch the controls.. with the o2 its the rather generic media player look that we have to deal with on our computers already. It would be slightly nicer to have something completely different when you're on the go don't you think?
nintendude7cubed
02-08-2009, 12:41
[wouldn't it be cool to have a touch piano for the o2? as a programmer, its not that hard..]
Did you by chance get that from the proposed projects section in cowon's dev wiki? LOL cuz i actually put that down. the wiki doesn't seem to be doing anything. Even so, i hope someone finds it and makes it their one-day project to keep us knowing that they're alive.
I dont know. They have a lot of options to change the settings right from the menu in now playing without leaving the screen. I really like that. The album art is huge. I didnt have the d2, just seen it on video, so maybe i dont understand completely what your talking about. Just do like that.
Back OT, If they make file browsing like the D2, integrate the internal and SDHC card and change the Icons, I would buy another O2...or at least try it again...
Yeah. it's worth another try, I hear you gave it less than 24 hours? That's not good enough, but I guess you already had a solid portable device you liked which made the O2 seem all that more unattractive. I understand.
I like the icons because they are unique and I like the separation of the internal memory from the SD card, especially with the 32 GB version, what is preferable is to keep media of one sort on the main device and media of another sort on an SD card, it makes no sense to span your music collection across the SD card and main memory and expect to listen to both at once, especially with 32 GB provided.
I like that option of segregating media; splitting it up over two storage locations, that is the very reason people partition their hard-drives. Since the O2 will not support partitioning the next best way to do this is to make the SD card separate from internal memory. I can understand those with low capacities or who only listen to music on their O2's and have scores of gigabytes of music wanting integration but for 32 GB it makes no sense. That is why the O2 has that screen and capacity, it is supposed to handle various types of media. Split up your media, which should be of multiple types........
Dalmane98
02-08-2009, 14:49
Yeah. it's worth another try, I hear you gave it less than 24 hours? That's not good enough,
Reading your post...You really do not understand my reasons...
I like the separation of the internal memory from the SD card, especially with the 32 GB version, what is preferable is to keep media of one sort on the main device and media of another sort on an SD card, it makes no sense to span your music collection across the SD card and main memory and expect to listen to both at once, especially with 32 GB provided.Why not? That is how it works on the D2 when you use the folder method...There is no separation on the O2...The O2 treats the Internal and External storage like a separate drive with only one being installed at a time...Same goes for copying files to it...
If the Player has ID3 Tag capabilities, like the D2 and other brand name players why would you not want it span both storage medias? Same goes for videos...Your looking at a file type...That is what most user complain about...The lack of this function.
I like that option of segregating media; splitting it up over two storage locations, that is the very reason people partition their hard-drives.Multiple partitions are to try and prevent data loss if the partition with the OS on it crashes...You can normal just reload the partition with the OS without having to reformat the whole drive...If you know what your doing...
Since the O2 will not support partitioning the next best way to do this is to make the SD card separate from internal memory.That is what the Folder method of Browsing is all about on the D2...That is what is really missing on the O2...It is hard to explain to someone who has not used a D2...
I can understand those with low capacities or who only listen to music on their O2's and have scores of gigabytes of music wanting integration but for 32 GB it makes no sense.Once again, you do not understand...I have over 58GB of FLAC files...I had a 16GB D2 with a 32GB SDHC Card and I could load up 40GB plus on my D2 and enjoy it using the Folder Method of Browsing or the Music Library...I could not do that with the O2...
Cowon did a piss poor job of integrating the hardware and software with the O2...It is like a Hard drive and a USB Flash drive on a desktop computer...they are both separate and always will be...With the D2, Cowon managed to merge both into a usable single storage device...
So you see, you really do not understand why I had my O2 less than 24 hours...
And just what Cowon player do you own???
Yo man! Why so defensive?! I'm not questioning your decision, just pointing out that I wouldn't have done the same, mostly because I had no other option to the O2. But you did have options and so you didn't keep it. Perfectly fine and made sense to you, that is all that matters
Ok, I only own the O2. As I said before I understand.....no need to explain.....thanks for explaining though.......though I'm wondering what will happen with your 58Gb of FLAC now that you have an S9......
All I'm saying is that I do not agree with the integration and I do not want this as part of the GUI improvement, maybe if the O2 had id3 tag browsing I would, but at the moment I do not.
And no matter what you say, a sub 24-hour evaluation is extremely unfair no matter how you try to justify it, that's all.
As for the partitioning the original reason is as you say. But you have to agree that apart from those who want to install a separate OS, the majority of people who partition drives end up putting all files of a certain type, say media or programs or games, on one or use the other partition as a backup. In my case, my hard-drive is crashed at the moment but I used spinrite together with the drive checker on windows 7 to ensure all the faulty portions are marked off onto a single unusable partition and I can continue to use my machine until I find some time to get a replacement.
Dalmane98
02-08-2009, 17:36
though I'm wondering what will happen with your 58Gb of FLAC now that you have an S9......
I just have to manage what I want to do better...Unfortunately not every album or song is the same size...Sure would make things easier...
I use OGG and only load the music I play all the time...Not stuff I have not listened to for years...
Quality, not quantity...[thumbsup]
I am done...Just my 2¢ worth...
I added some more personal thoughts to the first post in this thread...
BTW, I can't really grasp why people call the D2 interface "dated"... the O2 looks like friggin' Windows 3.11 - the D2 looks like XP in comparison (and the S9 like Vista or Win7). ;)
I'm curious why you're trying so hard to sell the idea that the O2 interface is a bad one. Reading this thread and some others, it's plain that a lot of people agree with you but a lot of people seem to like it as it is.
If they do come out with a D2-like firmware for the O2 I'll consider using it. I have a D2 and I like the interface but I also like the interface on the O2. I'm not sure which way I'd go.
One thing for sure, with the O2 there is now more variety available to us and I think that's a good thing, whichever interface you prefer.
Barry
I can navigate my D2 by tapping through the menus with my knuckles while running on a crosstraining machine in the gym. The O2, I literally have to stop moving, point my finger so I can use the nail, and fumble with teeny tiny itsy bitsy little sliders, icons and what nots.
The fact that the O2 has nearly twice the screen space as the D2, but is a LOT harder to navigate. It's just pure silliness...
If I have a suggestion, it's to make the O2 UI finger-friendly like the D2. Just make taskbar items and file browser sliders larger. That would be real nice.
I just have to manage what I want to do better...Unfortunately not every album or song is the same size...Sure would make things easier...
I use OGG and only load the music I play all the time...Not stuff I have not listened to for years...
Quality, not quantity...[thumbsup]
I am done...Just my 2¢ worth...
So, the one of the big problems you had with your o2, and one that could be fixed by a fw update, you opted out of that to a set in memory size like the s9? Sounds to me like you just really wanted the s9 and did not really give the o2 a chance. I read your original post, and it kinda seemed like you werent that into the o2. But, enjoy your s9. Gotta find happiness somewhere.
I'm curious why you're trying so hard to sell the idea that the O2 interface is a bad one. Reading this thread and some others, it's plain that a lot of people agree with you but a lot of people seem to like it as it is.
Because I (and obviously other people too) find it sad that there's so much wasted potential with the way the current firmwares work (or rather don't). I want the O2 to succeed, want it to be a good device. If I was just trolling and telling everyone "the O2 sucks" I wouldn't put any effort in it and just move on to another PMP. However, I really want to like the O2, but it's not easy.
I have no idea what frame of reference these people have that find the O2 to be somewhere between "fine" and "perfect" as far as usability goes, but for me it's among the worst players I used as of yet, usability-wise. Yeah, there are a few good ideas implemented (recent files list, bottom control bar), but many parts of the UI are in sore need of revamping. And that's what I would love to see happen. A firmware that does justice to the fine hardware.
Any news about the porting of the D2/S9 UI or a combination on the O2? I'm just thinking of selling it(O2), because this is a pain in the .....I'm starting to hate it!
The ball is now in Cowon's court. They know about the major gripes and appreciated our feedback. What they do and how fast they are, nobody knows as of now.
Pretty sure there will be no real 'porting' of any other player's UI to the O2 (D2 and S9 run Nucleus RTOS on a TeleChips SOC, O2 runs Linux on a DaVinci... they are completely different inside and out) - but let's hope they take the good parts of their other touch screen players and add them to improve the O2.
Thats what Id like to see. I would like it a lot more usable, but not a complete overhaul as some of their options are very useful.
Thats what Id like to see. I would like it a lot more usable, but not a complete overhaul as some of their options are very useful.
exactly my opinion as well.......
I have no idea what frame of reference these people have that find the O2 to be somewhere between "fine" and "perfect" as far as usability goes, but for me it's among the worst players I used as of yet, usability-wise.
It is not between fine and perfect, what it is is just barely "acceptable". I truly believe you don't use it often enough.....once you use it a lot you find it isn't bad, learning curve is steep but once you master it it becomes second nature. It is extremely simple and straighforward with no bullshit extra things to confuse you. The only real problem is the horrible lag, and the size and legibility of things, as well as the lack of gesture support.
I truly believe you don't use it often enough.....once you use it a lot you find it isn't bad, learning curve is steep but once you master it it becomes second nature. It is extremely simple and straighforward with no bullshit extra things to confuse you. The only real problem is the horrible lag, and the size and legibility of things, as well as the lack of gesture support.
I've been using the O2 every day since I got it last November, without exception. Of course I got used to how it works, but that doesn't change the situation that a lot of things could be much easier and less backwards. In my opinion there's nothing "extremely simple" about it considering the botched file browser, the tiny icons everywhere, the lack of hardware buttons, the badly implemented "<--" button, etc.
I'm not stupid, I know how to handle the player. But that doesn't mean I'm happy with the status quo. And I can compare it to the other four Cowon players I have or had - all of which are easier to operate, no matter if touch screen or not.
By the way, I'm not sure what to make of the contradictions in some of your posts. On the one hand you call the interface "barely acceptable", and on the other hand you say it's "simple and straightforward". In an older post (http://iaudiophile.net/forums/showpost.php?p=217904&postcount=40) you said "the learning curve is steep" but it's "new and refreshing and extremely simple to use"... for me those are somewhat mutually exclusive, but I think I know what you mean.
TwystedMonkey
02-09-2009, 12:19
DFKT I know all things considered you don't work for Cowon but you do have dealt with them more than most people I know. If you had to take a guess about how long it will take cowon to implement yours and Enzonten's idea how long would you say? Now this is taking for granted they will implement it, but I am taking the fact they were excited about it when you e-mailed them as a good sign. Because unless there is a 32 gig S9 out by the end of march I am going with the O2. And seeing a firmware update that changes the UI by then would be interesting. Though there are quite a few other o2 "haters" on this board I think you are more disapointed and can actually imagine it becoming a better device in time. Well thats the impression I get because your still using it.... heh. Thanks and sorry for bugging you directly.
TwystedMonkey, just like with Rockbox and other projects I don't even dare to make a forecast. Once/if we get some news/update/feedback from the O2 firmware programmer I will certainly post it here ASAP, but until then I really can't say anything.
As for the O2 vs. S9 - you have to ask yourself what your priorities are. Audio/video player on the go = S9, video player that supports more formats without conversion = O2.
TwystedMonkey
02-09-2009, 12:47
thats why I am going with the O2 atm..... keeping my eyes on firmware and other things though my decision may change. Thanks for all the answers you guys keep giving me they really help me make an informed decision. And I will keep my fingers crossed that the O2 FW programmers gets back to you sooner not later. Thanks again to everyone.
By the way, I'm not sure what to make of the contradictions in some of your posts. On the one hand you call the interface "barely acceptable", and on the other hand you say it's "simple and straightforward". In an older post (http://iaudiophile.net/forums/showpost.php?p=217904&postcount=40) you said "the learning curve is steep" but it's "new and refreshing and extremely simple to use"... for me those are somewhat mutually exclusive, but I think I know what you mean.
I mean everything I have said. It is barely "acceptable" doesn't mean it is bad. The reason it is acceptable is because it is simple and straightforward and isn't eventually hard to use though it is hard to learn. So while there is a steep learning curve (because it is unintuitive as you say) once you master it it is new and refreshing and extremely simple to use, that is what I'm trying to point out. I hope that makes sense?
Basically it is barely acceptable because it eventually becomes easy to use once you learn it. I know of some devices that even after a month of use are still very complicated to use such as my old Archos 5.
just like twystedmonkey im going with the o2 also but only because the d2 has the file limit and the s9 has no expandable memory. is there any way you can follow up with cowon dkft? asking them if they have taken your email into consideration following your last email to them?
I think the reply I posted showed that they took it into consideration. Nothing more I can say at the moment.
Between fine and perfect? I don't know. Maybe. I like it as is it. There are things I'd improve if I could but not many and none of them are important to me.
It's a new kind of interface and overall I like it. I find the screen easy to use. I use a fingernail for navigation on the D2 and on the O2. I never tried using a blunt fingertip. I probably just assumed that wouldn't work. I'm glad to hear it does but I doubt I'll change what I do.
As I said before, if you manage to get a D2 interface for it I'll consider installing it. I like the D2 interface a lot. I'm not sure which I prefer. I may leave it like it is.
I'm retired and living in a retirement home and I use players around the house and out in the yard mostly. I like to go sit in the gazebo or on the front porch and watch a movie or listen to a book. The O2 is just about perfect for that. If I'm going somewhere I take a smaller player. Portability isn't an issue for me. If I go for a walk, same thing; a smaller player.
The thing about the O2 is that I can put anything I have on it without having to wonder if it'll play and then it looks great and, most important of all, I don't have to use earphones most of the time. It has one of the best built-in speakers of any of my players. The only one even close to it is the Creative Zen Vision:W. This is important to me.
I can use this player without having to think about it much. Yes I'm fairly tech savvie. I'm a retired computer programmer. I worked at that for almost 35 years untill I retired about 12 years ago for health reasons. I can handle any difficulties the player throws at me but I want it to be easy.
For me a good player isn't a gadget, it's a movie. It's a TV show. It's a radio show; an audiobook. It's music. If I have to treat it like a gadget I want something else. The O2 doesn't need that kind of treatment. I just use it. Others can think about it.
Don't get me wrong. You're pushing for what you want and that's what makes this world work and I'm glad you're doing it. We all win when people do that. It's just good to remember that other good people, sometimes want something different.
Barry
It's just good to remember that other good people, sometimes want something different.
Barry
Fantastic statement that I fully agree with. A lot of people would do well to follow your advice.
Dalmane98
02-09-2009, 16:23
It's just good to remember that other good people, sometimes want something different.Barry
Fantastic statement that I fully agree with. A lot of people would do well to follow your advice.So do I...Now, please get off my case...
soulpower
02-09-2009, 16:55
I'm down with dfkt abouot trying to improve the firmware.
'Nuff said.
SP
So do I...Now, please get off my case...
Hmm?
Read my sig, take nothing I say personally, I just call it how I see it and truth be told I wasn't referring to you when I wrote that......relax.
Yes, if there is an improvement it is all for the better and I am all for it.....that's all. Bring on the D2 or S9 GUI!
emorphien
02-09-2009, 20:13
It is not between fine and perfect, what it is is just barely "acceptable". I truly believe you don't use it often enough.....once you use it a lot you find it isn't bad, learning curve is steep but once you master it it becomes second nature. It is extremely simple and straighforward with no bullshit extra things to confuse you. The only real problem is the horrible lag, and the size and legibility of things, as well as the lack of gesture support.
I can live with the UI as is if they improve the interaction mechanics (gesture) and add some ID3 support among a few other things. I can use it and still enjoy it well enough. That being said, the UI is deeply flawed and takes very poor advantage of the screen size and hardware available and is just foolish to implement it on Cowon's part. The entire layout and interface is dated and just doesn't make sense. If it were navigated with a mouse it might make some sense, but it's not.
There are many additional oddities. When watching the video why does the video name displayed at the bottom of the OSD (when it's being displayed) not scroll when it doesn't fit? There are a lot of other things that show a lack of thought about how a UI is used and viewed. I have hope that what is being done here will mean a significant improvement that really makes the UI work well. It's got the hardware and power to be a top notch player but the firmware lets the whole things down severely.
I agree that the functionality of playing music and videos is what this is for. But even there you can identify flaws. The aforementioned lack of scrolling of file names makes it hard to verify if you're on the right file and sometimes I would like to be able to double check quickly. The clicks between audio tracks is ruinous to the experience of listening to many albums for some of us and I have never experienced anything like that on any other player before. The UI is still important though, even if the actual act of playing media was perfect. It ties everything together and for Cowon is certainly important in attracting customers. There's just no thought there and it shows.
I like the UI...Instead of them wasting time on it why don't they fix more important things like h.264 and MKV playback.
I like the UI...Instead of them wasting time on it why don't they fix more important things like h.264 and MKV playback.
That's valid, but I think a lot of people agree the UI is flawed. If they can fix both things, and accomplish one of them by making use of something they already have on hand, all the better.
Squeaky wheel gets the grease and the UI is one squeaky wheel.
nintendude7cubed
02-11-2009, 20:10
That's valid, but I think a lot of people agree the UI is flawed. If they can fix both things, and accomplish one of them by making use of something they already have on hand, all the better.
Squeaky wheel gets the grease and the UI is one squeaky wheel.
I agree. The interface is more of an emergency than the video playback (even though that goes almost completely against why i bought my o2, for the eq and great sound, but since the audio stuff is all perfected, i move on to the interface) which brings me to my next thought, i bet if they put the d2 interface on the o2, they'll probably end up putting the sound enhancements on the video as well since the d2 had that! I also think the sound in video is more important that those two formats that aren't being fixed. Besides, all my avi works and that makes for about 75 percent of my videos whether they're divx, xvid, or raw.
My concern would be that we'd get the D2's 5-band EQ in exchange for the O2's much more robust 10-band. That would kind of suck.
But that's making the assumption that every feature from the D2 would just carry over directly. I would hope that if Cowon was going to go through all the trouble of porting an older UI and featureset to a new player that they'd not gimp it in the process...the idea is to improve.
If rockbox were ever brought to the O2 then we could just dual-boot and have all the audio tweaks we wanted, on top of better video options. But that's a longshot. I know the rockbox for D2 effort is going strong, but it's a ways off still. And having D2 firmware on the O2 doesn't make it an automatic fit, either.
You take it too literally... nobody's taking away your 10-band EQ, nobody's talking about a 100% exact copy of the D2 UI for the O2.
That's a relief. You never know with cowon.
nintendude7cubed
02-12-2009, 16:23
You take it too literally... nobody's taking away your 10-band EQ, nobody's talking about a 100% exact copy of the D2 UI for the O2.
yeah guys, because how stupid would it be for a company to take away a feature for better ui... well i guess apple-wise, it seems like something they'd do.. But not cowon.. They value their sound which rocks!!!
Zunes lost their EQ entirely, in favor of better battery life.
It's not that farfetched.
But you're probably right and I should stop worrying.
nintendude7cubed
02-12-2009, 23:02
Zunes lost their EQ entirely, in favor of better battery life.
It's not that farfetched.
But you're probably right and I should stop worrying.
That's exactly what i mean.. I couldn't care less about my battery life to a point, and couldn't they just let the person decide between better sound and better batterylife.. Ugh stupid american companies. Like i tell people often, cowon is the Ipod of Korea, and Korea is smarter than we are... I guess i was right.
That's valid, but I think a lot of people agree the UI is flawed. If they can fix both things, and accomplish one of them by making use of something they already have on hand, all the better.
Squeaky wheel gets the grease and the UI is one squeaky wheel.
This is Cowon were talking about they can't do both at the same time look how long it took them to get the D2 where it is today...
That's exactly what i mean.. I couldn't care less about my battery life to a point, and couldn't they just let the person decide between better sound and better batterylife..
Well, once Cowon makes the decision, then it's out of the user's hands. Like you, I'd much rather have the best sound available and see battery life suffer a little as a result. I think the current battery life is more than adequate, but I'm not a 'marathon' user so it's easy for me to say that. Some people want all the juice they can get.
This is Cowon were talking about they can't do both at the same time look how long it took them to get the D2 where it is today...
Eh, I dunno if that's true. Even if we got the D2 UI tomorrow, I'd still expect some problems. But Cowon does listen to the consumer, they just have a roundabout way of getting back to us with actual changes. At least as far as we know. None of us works for Cowon, so who knows what kind of internal politics they have to battle to do anything, or what their priorities are.
We're just kids waiting for our presents on Christmas morning...we don't know what we're getting, but we know it'll probably be somewhere under 2 tons of ribbons and wrapping paper.
emorphien
02-13-2009, 12:43
Cowon would make things much easier for themselves if the hardware they used was more uniform across the players, allowing them to recycle more components of the OS/UI. As a result they could put effort in to making a better UI that is uniform across a few players and improvements in one would affect another.
I dunno about that, that would make a lot of their players much alike, which would probably result in a loss of sales for them and their priority is sales unlike us the consumers who want quality products.
It would probably be much easier for Cowon (and their consumers) if they wouldn't go through all that trial and error with each new player but had a clear line of interfaces that they would improve upon. Learning from their mistakes and their good ideas, and remembering them for their next players.That would be much easier for them and their customers than to reinvent everything from scratch with each new player.
I agree, but I also like that Cowon has so many different devices with so much differentiation between them.
But yes, a little uniformity would go a long way in solving usability problems and giving them more identity. I mean, take the Cowon logo off of all their current DAPs and PMPs and PVPs and what have you, and I think random person off the street would never guess that half of them are made by the same company.
But at the same time, juat looking at the products available on the Cowon website, the O2 and the P5 have similar-looking UIs. The Q5 and the S9 are off on their own with completely different interfaces. The D2 has its own look, the A2 and A3 have a lot of similarities to everything else but is basically unique, the X5 is kind of like the U7...
I'm sure I missed a few and I went through those pretty hastily. It's such a mishmash, but there's some DNA being carried over from one player to the next. Just not that much.
emorphien
02-13-2009, 14:15
I dunno about that, that would make a lot of their players much alike, which would probably result in a loss of sales for them and their priority is sales unlike us the consumers who want quality products.
If the design of the OS was right I doubt that would be an issue as they could leave out or add in parts depending on the hardware features of the player and what software capabilities they want it to have.
Zunes lost their EQ entirely...
This exactly why I eliminated it right away from my options. I don't care if it(any audio device) has, let's say, quad core chip, wi-fi and holographic interface alltogether, but if a ultramodern PMP lacks even simple and classic tools like an EQ, all that is for nothing! This is also why I am so disappointed with my O2. Having such a hardware controlled by this UI is outrageus![thumbdwn]
If the design of the OS was right I doubt that would be an issue as they could leave out or add in parts depending on the hardware features of the player and what software capabilities they want it to have.
Oh I think i understand. So what you mean is like creative and archos players all have nearly identical interfaces, just with changes in colour scheme, options and hardware features?
Yes that makes a lot of sense and is a good idea but as dfkt says, they seem to be doing some trial and error with the UI which has resulted in the poor quality UI currently on the O2 and the ipod-touch clone UI on the S9. This might be because they are new in the touchscreen device market and wanted to examine how the A2/A3 interface would work on a touchscreen (O2) and borrowed some design elements form other touchscreen devices (S9).
So far it hasn't worked too well for the O2 and hopefully once they realise that they will modify it some more for touchscreen usability.
emorphien
02-13-2009, 18:35
Well that's what they're doing now, I think they ought to be doing it completely differently... hence my suggestion :)
Oh I think i understand. So what you mean is like creative and archos players all have nearly identical interfaces, just with changes in colour scheme, options and hardware features?
Yes that makes a lot of sense and is a good idea but as dfkt says, they seem to be doing some trial and error with the UI which has resulted in the poor quality UI currently on the O2 and the ipod-touch clone UI on the S9. This might be because they are new in the touchscreen device market and wanted to examine how the A2/A3 interface would work on a touchscreen (O2) and borrowed some design elements form other touchscreen devices (S9).
So far it hasn't worked too well for the O2 and hopefully once they realise that they will modify it some more for touchscreen usability.
They aren't new to the field of touchscreen devices.. the D2 works fairly well, and the S9 works even better... it's just the O2 that's completely messed up in comparison. ;)
They aren't new to the field of touchscreen devices.. the D2 works fairly well, and the S9 works even better... it's just the O2 that's completely messed up in comparison. ;)
relatively new. most companies are new (around a year or two) in the touchscreen portable media player field except for archos and to some extent apple.
-- Note that creative haven't even bothered and continue to churn out non-touchscreen devices like the zen and the zenx-fi. --
The D2 had a totally new UI engineered for touchscreen usability and the S9 has borrowed quite a few nifty design fundamentals from other touchscreen UIs around. Unfortunately for whatever reason, rather than use these tried and tested UIs it seems cowon tried to translate the A3 interface onto a touchscreen device (the O2) and it doesn't seem to have worked too well.....I am optimistic that all it needs are a few touch-ups for touch screen usability and it will be extremely powerful and nifty.
Sorry for double posting but I want to draw attention to this post. So the Cowon D2+ has been released and I heard about it and decided to go take a look. From the pictures I saw the UI seems to be A LOT like the O2 UI. There are the same icons and general colour scheme. But it isn't the same....noticeably different. This might be reaching a bit since I only have pics to back-up my speculation, but it is entirely possible that this is the test subject for the new O2 UI.
Take a look for yourself and see whether that couldn't be the case
http://product.cowon.com/product/COWOND2PLUS/product_page_2.php (http://product.cowon.com/product/COWOND2PLUS/product_page_4.php)
soulpower
02-23-2009, 05:50
Interesting. however i think someone said the d2 is running off a different OW which would not make the change to that interface feasible (however probable).
i wonder if they will make the user-created interface available for the o2.
thanks for the post.
sp
Sorry for double posting but I want to draw attention to this post. So the Cowon D2+ has been released and I heard about it and decided to go take a look. From the pictures I saw the UI seems to be A LOT like the O2 UI. There are the same icons and general colour scheme. But it isn't the same....noticeably different. This might be reaching a bit since I only have pics to back-up my speculation, but it is entirely possible that this is the test subject for the new O2 UI.
Take a look for yourself and see whether that couldn't be the case
http://product.cowon.com/product/COWOND2PLUS/product_page_4.php
hahahaha...i feel bad for the people out there who bought an O2 looking for the successor to the D2...
hahahaha...i feel bad for the people out there who bought an O2 looking for the successor to the D2...
who cares about them?! what about me? i bought a D2 1.5 years ago, and now there's a prettier one coming out! damn it all to hell, why does my D2 still work?
Looks like a modified o2 interface.
^To me it looks like a modified version of the D2 interface with O2 icons;)
Looks like a modified o2 interface.
Exactly, containing, no doubt, numerous elements of the D2 interface that people have been wanting on the O2. If it is released upon the O2 all will be happy n'est pas?
Exactly, containing, no doubt, numerous elements of the D2 interface that people have been missing on the O2. If it is released upon the O2 all will be happy n'est pas?
That would be great. I actually don't mind the main menu screen on the O2 that much, though they could have fit more icons on there at once and avoided all the scrolling and vertical movement.
But it looks like they made better use of the screen real estate on the D2+...no reason why you couldn't fit everything on the O2 with all that space.
The D2+ interface is exactly the same as the regular D2, they only changed the ugly colors (almost as pretty as my MoreMono theme now ;)) only the main screen icons are the same as the O2... but implemented in the more efficient D2 way (two rows, not only one).
The D2+ interface is exactly the same as the regular D2, they only changed the ugly colors (almost as pretty as my MoreMono theme now ;)) only the main screen icons are the same as the O2... but implemented in the more efficient D2 way (two rows, not only one).
Yup, as I commented in the other thread the so-called "new GUI" is no more than a new theme, and not as good a theme as any of Cassini's anyway. Has a full translation of the D2+ pages come out yet? I was and still am hoping they'll allow users to create flash skins for screens other than just the music one... that would make it worthy of the '+' moniker...
The D2+ interface is exactly the same as the regular D2, they only changed the ugly colors (almost as pretty as my MoreMono theme now ;)) only the main screen icons are the same as the O2... but implemented in the more efficient D2 way (two rows, not only one).
Well, isn't that what this whole thread is about? Getting something like that on the O2? Keep in mind that I'm not talking about the D2+ in relation to the old D2 but rather in relation to the O2. whose interface many have complained about.
Dalmane98
02-24-2009, 16:20
(almost as pretty as my MoreMono theme now ;)) only the main screen icons are the same as the O2... but implemented in the more efficient D2 way (two rows, not only one).
I think Cowon got confused by your letter...[confused]
They are trying to put the O2 stuff on the D2 instead of the other way around...;)
Well maybe they will get it right in the end...
The D2 + sure is pretty though...I just might buy one (4GB)...The all black model would be a killer...especially with MoreMono on it...if it would still work.
anyone a translator? i would looovvee to hear the specs on the D2+
oh and price
nintendude7cubed
02-25-2009, 13:21
the d2+ interface would be perfect for the o2 no doubt... I'm just frustrated overall that the o2 was the only one that was missed completely on the whole uci thing. The d2, s9, and now d2+ has it.. knowing cowon, they should fill in the blank sometime soon or at least come up with a half decent compromise.
anyone a translator? i would looovvee to hear the specs on the D2+
oh and price
there's not much new. BBE+ is new, better DMB reception and it looks so much prettier. battery and memory is the same.
nintendude7cubed
02-26-2009, 17:20
Sorry for double posting but I want to draw attention to this post. So the Cowon D2+ has been released and I heard about it and decided to go take a look. From the pictures I saw the UI seems to be A LOT like the O2 UI. There are the same icons and general colour scheme. But it isn't the same....noticeably different. This might be reaching a bit since I only have pics to back-up my speculation, but it is entirely possible that this is the test subject for the new O2 UI.
Take a look for yourself and see whether that couldn't be the case
http://product.cowon.com/product/COWOND2PLUS/product_page_4.php
now looking at these pics once more, it makes me think so! And why not? honestly putting this exact profile on the o2 would even make it look sleeker than it already is!
Foofie Beast
07-08-2009, 21:09
it would be pretty nice
judging by the lapse in time in this thread... I see they did end up ingnoring our gripes....cool.
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