View Full Version : Why the A3 Kills the O2 & S9
auxiliary
02-04-2009, 17:21
It’s been a while. I’ve now owned, used and sold both the O2 and S9. Why the sales?
Let me tell you, before I conclude by stating that the best players Cowon have ever made are certainly NOT this current generation of crap.
O2 - purchased online.
+ Sound quality for music was very good indeed but not enough to save it.
+ Video and audio codec support was very good but not enough to save it.
- Touch UI was hardly inspiring. Hit/miss/hit/miss. Brings NOTHING to the player.
- No AV in recording.
- No extra cables in the box (mini USB and that’s it – cheap Cowon – cheap!)
- But the main thing is that the screen quality was totally underwhelming. Blacks were grey. Crap, crap, crap.
- Why create a 4.3 inch screen with less resolution than the A3? I don’t get, didn’t get it, and sent the player back.
- Sound quality on videos was shockingly bad.
- And then the touchscreen just stopped responding.
- Reset. Hard reset. Noting. Dead. Zip. Nada. Zilch. What an absolute joke.
Exchanged online for an S9
+ Sound quality for music very good but did not sound as good as the O2. Hmph?
+Sound quality for video absolutely outstanding. Watched I Am Legend with total immersion. What a joy.
+Video looks stunning. I mean absolutely stunning on the S9.
+Gorgeous AMOLED screen. Blacks were black. Contrast sublime.
So what was the problem?
- Lacks the KIND OF video format support of the O2
- I do not have the time to transcode/convert/re-size videos, so the player quickly became crippled for me.
- Build quality whilst very good did not FEEL special. It felt lightweight, and not like a £170 device. That’s not good enough FOR ME, and so it was sold.
A3 – Now here’s a player which kills the new Cowon models in a stroke.
+ Wide codec support equal to the O2. Unbeaten.
+All the cables in the box. Better than O2.
+ Bigger storage than the O2. 60 or 80 gig hard drive! I’m not sold on this whole gimmick of “flash memory is so great”. Why? If you’re going to drop your player and delete everything, you’re probably not taking care of your devices anyway. Buy some gloves.
+ AV in and Out the way it should be. Recording features too. Fabulous. Kills the O2.
+ Absolutely KILLER screen. Better than the O2. Better than the S9. Better than ANY player in the world in terms of pixel density. S9 and O2 go back to the drawing board.
+ Navigation is with the jog lever, which is actually an advantage. You don’t have to worry about a touch screen screwing up. It’s simpler and not as fiddly as the rubbish O2 UI.
+ Great sound quality for audio AND video, unlike the O2.
There are simply NO killer blows that the S9 or O2 can land on the A3. The best either can claim is that the A3 is chunky.
Well you know what? Good. Because Cowon’s build quality on the O2 is a joke. Plasticky, cheap materials are not a good sign.
The A3 meanwhile is built to last. It’s the greatest PMP on the planet right now and anyone considering an O2 should think again. There is no justifiable reason to buy one over an A3. Simply none.
Hard drive players are out. Soon Cowon sill probably stop building the A3. I suggest buying one before they do. It is the last great effort from a manufacturer capable of amazing things, but punching well below its weight on recent evidence.
The A3 is dead? No, no. Long live the A3! [yes]
emorphien
02-04-2009, 19:17
Build quality on the O2 is a joke? You sound very angry and ranty, but I cannot agree with that. Nothing wrong with plastic and the O2 feels quite solid and well put together as others have mentioned.
Sorry to hear your O2 died though, I certainly agree the touch UI has a lot of flaws but at least it has gotten a bit more responsive. I also don't find the blacks to be all that bad (no they don't match an OLED but no surprise) on the O2 and of course the screen resolution really isn't an issue for me either. Subtitles are fine and if that's the case it does the job.
nivlacbot
02-04-2009, 23:50
Was waiting for someone who has experienced both of A3 and O2 to post back... Seems like I guessed right... its a step down from the A3 - middling ground between the D2 and the A3 and you get wet more often than not when you put each foot in 2 different boats.
Why I would stick with an A3:
+ Higher Res Screen - and it does matter. Rather watch in high res than watch low res for longer.
+ Quick UI: I'm kind of used to the A3 joystick. Once you learn the ropes, the A3 UI is blisteringly fast. Combine that with Boot Resume and Recently Played List (Press A on MainMenu), nothing beats the 'Time to video' delay. Even the Q5w seemed sluggish after an A3.. even though the delay is hardly a sec.
+ Space. 60/80Gigs over 32G. It'd be fun to have a SD Card slot.. however I can manage with a USB Card Reader + USB Host. Plus I heard the O2 PC Connectivity isn't that great. The D2 showed 2 drives (internal + SD).. the O2 forces you to pick one and shows just that one.. Lame. Also I'm lazy I like dumping it all in one place.
- BatteryLife: Here the A3 loses out.. but for the AV quality.. i can live with it.
-Style: The O2 wins with the slick quotient. However anyone who bought an A3 after looking at it once.. bought it for what it can do & not how it looks.
+ Price: As of now, the A3 price has tapered down to great VFM range whereas the newer models continue to eek out the 'new toy' surcharge
+ Accessories: I get all the cables in the box instead of having to 10$ piecemeal each item.
The only thing improvements on the A3 (after about a year of relentless usage) would be.. otherwise its perfect (I don't do H264 yet)
'play longer on a single charge' [laugh] and
dedicated hardware buttons on the side like the D2/Q5 to use while the player is in Hold
I think the O2's screen is not that bad but maybe if I had a Cowon A3 beforehand I would probably be spoiled by how the sharp the A3's screen is compared to the O2 (800x400 vs 480x272).
-The UI I guess can be quicker to browse in the A3 compared to the O2 because it has buttons and a joystick but since all the firmware updates I find the O2's GUI not sluggish at all but then there are the little freeze ups every once in awhile.
-The USB transfer speed from my PC to my O2 is good I guess usually at 5-7mb/sec. As for the video recording, I have the A2 and I never really used that feature.
- I find the style of the O2 much better than the A2/A3. I also I find a real NOTICEABLE difference in their weight and the O2 feels a lot lighter in my hands making it more portable. Its also more thinner which means more pocketable. I also agree that the build quality on the O2 is good. I put it in my backpack which has lots of coins and some keys and it hasn't got a scratch yet except for this little scratch near the speaker.
- If the stereo speakers on the A3 are as loud as the A2's then I believe the speakers on the A3 are much better than the O2's mono speaker.
Yeah, I guess i would rather have the a3.....but then you have the pathetic little clumsy joystick from players in the 2001 range. Then I would have pathetic battery life, which I would have to bring my charger with me every where I went(trade off for screen res). I could also have another Cowon tricky ui. The dvr is nice, but you can download everything. Cables in the box, should have been done, but they are sooo cheap so who cares. The o2 is built like a brick, never heard anyone complain about that. HDD vs flash? cmon. Its a joke to say you dont believe in flash. No moving parts vs moving. Im not against hdd at all, but I know when there is a better product. Thats like people saying dvds are stupid, ill stick with my vcr. And one of the FW updates helped the touchscreen a lot. I havent had any problems.
The a3 and o2 are different players, but it def does not beat the o2
I have both the O2 and the A3, since music is my main need, I only use the O2. As I have stated in other threads I only use the A3 for video recording. I don't have a problem with any of the O2 so-called flaws. I even transferred some movies from the A3 to the O2 and to my eyes they look just fine.
what gripes do you have with the o2 since you are an owner of both and the "so-called flaws" i have an a2 and im getting the o2 for valentines i wanna know what to expect and i plan to do the same thing you do o2 for audio and a3 for video
auxiliary
02-05-2009, 12:37
Build quality on the O2 is a joke? You sound very angry and ranty, but I cannot agree with that. Nothing wrong with plastic and the O2 feels quite solid and well put together as others have mentioned.
Sorry to hear your O2 died though, I certainly agree the touch UI has a lot of flaws but at least it has gotten a bit more responsive. I also don't find the blacks to be all that bad (no they don't match an OLED but no surprise) on the O2 and of course the screen resolution really isn't an issue for me either. Subtitles are fine and if that's the case it does the job.
Sorry, I did sound a bit ranty but it's just my bad experience of the O2 speaking. I love the A3, and won't be looking back.
The screen resolution is just out of the park fantastic, and as I want a video capable device first, there's just nothing better.
RE the joystick: They're fine to use, but the one on my X5 no longer registers down-clicks. So you have eventual breakdown to look forward to, especially if you're using it a lot. And I think playing tetris on my X5 may have been the cause, so to be fair, that was hardly what cowon intended it to be used for. But still, it's a physical piece that is prone to breakage.
This is one thing that the O2 touchscreen has going for it, at least. Now if they could just get the UI polished up so that it's a smidge easier to use.
please unne002, provide some proofs of the O2's screen being poor (maybe some pictures) especially about blacks being gray?
I have one and it is good enough, even compared to that most powerful screen of the archos 5.
And please, how can the A3 LCD screen defeat the S9 powerful unscratchable AMOLED screen?
Lastly, there is no way the A3 will be popular because it is known to fail (maybe hardrive?) and it just is not made to be put in a pocket. You say O2 is of poorer materials compared with A3? well you also say players are not to be dropped so what does it matter of poor build quality? When it comes down to it do you want something that looks solid but will break if u drop it a lot or something that is of cheap materials but will not break if you drop it?
I had an A3 and didn't really like that it was NOT POCKETABLE. S9 is FANTASTIC but of low capacity. So if I wanted a cowon, O2 will have to do, other players do not have high flash capacity and a speaker and a good screen. If there is any viable option please indicate to me so I can get one post-haste!
O2 is poor with hard and slow GUI but it still works fine for everything I want to do, and codec support is paramount for me.
i have an a2 and im not willing to buy the same thing twice and live with basically the same player for the next 2 years or so (look at my sig ive had quite a few already) the d2 is a deal breaker because of the dumb 4000 file limit and the s9 doesnt have a memory card slot i need capacity and sound quality, gimme file tree browsing and a delete button (the 02 DOES have a delete button right?)
i have an a2 and im not willing to buy the same thing twice and live with basically the same player for the next 2 years or so (look at my sig ive had quite a few already) the d2 is a deal breaker because of the dumb 4000 file limit and the s9 doesnt have a memory card slot i need capacity and sound quality, gimme file tree browsing and a delete button (the 02 DOES have a delete button right?)
Yes, it seems you are much like me. I want some high capacity powerful video player with much codec support and a speaker. But the A3 does not fit in my pocket, I've had enough of hard-drives and manual controls and poor battery life ( not even a day's worth) and the D2 and S9 have silly tiny capacity. O2 has good sound quality, file tree browsing, long lasting battery, a speaker, an SD card slot and a touchscreen (yes and a delete button) what more could I ask for, If anything beats the O2 in these categories please tell me about it so I can go and get one right away.
auxiliary
02-06-2009, 07:01
Well folks, I'm not going to try to convince anyone. Forgive my semi-rant and perhaps the O2 isn't quite as bad as I have already stated.
I do think the screen though is not up to much. Comparing the S9 and O2, I played back the same movie "Let the Right One In". The blacks on the O2 were very grey looking, and the colours (I remember a scene showing a red wall) just looked mediocre. Meanwhile, these same colours on the S9 absolutely popped.
So over I've gone to the A3, and what I have is a screen with much higher resolution, and the type of viewing experience on the S9.
My personal O2 was crippled, and I lost faith in its build quality even though I am very fastidious with my tech, but it just gave up on me.
Others are obviously having a better experience with it so that's cool.
We appreciate your thoughys. We might have jumped on this a little because of all the bad rap about the o2. Th s9 certainly does pop, but I guess the video is plenty enough for most of us, and we would rather have a longer battery. But, this is why companies(most) make more than one player. To suit peoples needs. Enjoy the a3
gimme file tree browsing and a delete button (the 02 DOES have a delete button right?)
Yes indeed it does. It's a great feature that I didn't think I'd use that often but is wonderful to have on-the-go.
Wabbitus
02-17-2009, 06:00
A3 – Now here’s a player which kills the new Cowon models in a stroke.
+ Wide codec support equal to the O2. Unbeaten.
. . .
+ Navigation is with the jog lever, which is actually an advantage. You don’t have to worry about a touch screen screwing up. It’s simpler and not as fiddly as the rubbish O2 UI.
There are two things I don't like about the A3:
1. codec support:
advertised with h.264 HP, but can only play h.264 LP
So no real HD Support with the A3.
2. the navigation jog is a "fiddly" joke:
At least 2 out of 10 times when I extra carefully press on the jog to select something it nonetheless changes the position on what I wanted to select (If I'm not careful enough it's more like 5 out of 10). I've never experienced such a crap control on a PMP before.
It would have been a much better design to have an extra "select" Button instead of having to press onto the jog.
For reason "1" I'm looking forward to the new HD PMPs which are anounced for the next months.
auxiliary
02-17-2009, 12:18
There are two things I don't like about the A3:
1. codec support:
advertised with h.264 HP, but can only play h.264 LP
So no real HD Support with the A3.
2. the navigation jog is a "fiddly" joke:
At least 2 out of 10 times when I extra carefully press on the jog to select something it nonetheless changes the position on what I wanted to select (If I'm not careful enough it's more like 5 out of 10). I've never experienced such a crap control on a PMP before.
It would have been a much better design to have an extra "select" Button instead of having to press onto the jog.
For reason "1" I'm looking forward to the new HD PMPs which are anounced for the next months.
Yep, I must admit that psychologically I'm somewhat retreating on my resounding praise about the A3.
But still, despite its flaws it's still a great device. As for the jog 'nipple' :) I've never had any difficulty.
A friend of mine has an O2 which is functioning normally (my one was faulty) and I must say I think I'm coming around to liking it after all. If it had an AMOLED screen there would be nothing to touch it. No pun intended! :D
Yep, I must admit that psychologically I'm somewhat retreating on my resounding praise about the A3.
But still, despite its flaws it's still a great device. As for the jog 'nipple' :) I've never had any difficulty.
A friend of mine has an O2 which is functioning normally (my one was faulty) and I must say I think I'm coming around to liking it after all. If it had an AMOLED screen there would be nothing to touch it. No pun intended! :D
ah so now you see the light...all those who actually give the O2 a chance and use it properly seem to like it......my roommates drool regularly over mine....and they own ipods.......
As I said before this thread should never have been created, especially not in the O2 forum.
The thread has been proven wrong. Thats all. Now ill listen to my o2.
O.J. Simpson
02-22-2009, 14:14
The thread has been proven wrong. Thats all. Now ill listen to my o2.
UH, sure if that makes you feel better. In reality the A3 is better for some people who prefer the better display and recording ability and storage advantage. The O2 is better for others who prefer touchscreen and wifi. That's all, now I'll go watch a recording I made on my A3.[rofl]
Don't Panic
02-22-2009, 14:21
The O2 is better for others who prefer touchscreen and wifi
WiFi?? Didn't know the O2 had that... [laugh]
UH, sure if that makes you feel better. In reality the A3 is better for some people who prefer the better display and recording ability and storage advantage. The O2 is better for others who prefer touchscreen and wifi. That's all, now I'll go watch a recording I made on my A3.[rofl]
It is extremely saddening when people speak ignorantly.
The O2 doesn't have wifi....for starters.......and the O2 is liked for more than that....just a few advantages compared to the A3: bigger screen. longer battery life, significantly cheaper, flash memory is less likely to fail and TOUCHSCREEN. (Countless people have complained about the A3's joystick). The flash memory and touchscreen alone are significant advancements....hardware controls and hard-drives are soon to be things of the past.
No offense meant but I really don't know why you've taken it upon yourself to come and slam a device you hardly know anything about. kashrp stated a absolutely solid FACT and I would like to see anyone who has an extensive knowledge of both devices dispute it with FACTS.
^That was a bit closer to Flaming than I'd like to see posts here come in the future Ludd. Terms like "ignorantly" tend to be polarizing and unhelpful.
Thanks for your future consideration.
I'm sorry............
It is the truth though...the statement is ignorant.
But I will be more condescending and less abrasive in the future. Again I apologize for loosing my cool.
I think you meant _less_ condescending and less abrasive...
If not...I was trying to give you a friendly there, and you're running a risk of digging a hole for yourself.
I meant exactly what I said, but in a good way.
LESS abrasive: self explanatory
MORE condescending: to disregard a perceived sense of superiority.
Let me explain. It sometimes happens that when we, as human beings with a strong sense of self, hear or read something we perceive to be ignorant or misguided, we are possessed by feelings of scorn, spite or disdain for the originator of the statement. It is impossible to prevent them, however it is entirely possible to ignore them and refuse to allow them to have an effect on our reaction to the statement.
So what I mean is that I will try not to allow the feelings to affect my future posts by being more condescending i.e. discarding the momentary feeling of superiority in knowing the right thing.
Again I apologize. I did not mean to insult or ridicule, just to illuminate and inform.
O.J. Simpson
03-01-2009, 15:54
I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings lude, There's no reason to get so defensive. I was only trying to make o2 owners feel better for having purchased such a disappointing player. The fact that it doesn't have wifi capability really sucks for a player released in 2008. I guess it's just a cheap a3 with flash memmory and a poor execution of touchscreen navigation. A3 owners were expecting more from the next generation of Cowon pmp's and the o2 didn't deliver.
Don't Panic
03-01-2009, 16:08
I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings lude, There's no reason to get so defensive. I was only trying to make o2 owners feel better for having purchased such a disappointing player. The fact that it doesn't have wifi capability really sucks for a player released in 2008. I guess it's just a cheap a3 with flash memmory and a poor execution of touchscreen navigation. A3 owners were expecting more from the next generation of Cowon pmp's and the o2 didn't deliver.
^^ All the A3 owners were expecting more? I find wifi an overrated energy sucking, half useless-can't see the whole page-every mobile has it so why do i need it-feature, but hack that's just an opinion just as yours.;)
btw. Do you have a fridge with a tv in the door? no? Maybe something for you.
O.J. Simpson
03-01-2009, 16:29
You o2 owners are an angry bunch aren't you. Yes A3 owners were expecting more instead Cowon offered the same davinci chipset, the same codec support, lower resolution screen, less storage, and they removed the video recording capability to name a few. there's very little incentive for us to upgrade. I'd love to hear from someone who owns both.
Don't Panic
03-01-2009, 17:08
Oke i see you made up your mind. Not angry (will take a lot more to get me angry). I actually find the touchscreen an real improvement also the flash storage, improvement ( and 64 GB is also nice). I never bought the A2 and A3 because of how you have to operate it, so bought an Q5 instead.
I have both. I bought the A3 and then bought the O2 when it came out. For me I prefer the O2 for the touchscreen and the better battery life as well as the smaller size. Since music is my main use, I also like the bigger album art on the O2 than the A3. The only thing I use the A3 for is to record TV shows and sometimes I will transfer them to the O2 to view. I just wish that flash memory came in a larger capacity since I have 40GB of music, I have the 32GB O2 and a 32 GB sd card to hold my entire music collection.
It's amazing that I come in here, figure I've resolved a problem and that all's well, and then I get _another_ complaint.
This thread is one trolling/flaming post away from being closed. If and when that happens people _will_ be Infracted. And I just threw benefit of the doubt out the window.
Behave yourselves, and focus on the actual issues rather than the (groups of) posters.
There will be no further warnings.
Thank you for your consideration. And most of you have been considerate. And if you're wondering whether I'm concerned about your conduct, you know how to get in contact with me (hint- not by posting a message in this thread).
This is what happens when I lose 15 minutes reading a thread and writing a post admonishing people when I want to be crashing for the night.
Why mess with the dvr(which is not the easiest to operate) on the a3 when you can just download the show/clip/movie. A lot easier. Oh, and ill take slimmer, better looking, and touchable all day.
jarapper
03-04-2009, 03:54
I feel like I'm with my family during the holidays! I came here looking to get owners' thoughts and experiences with A3, O2 and S9 and ended up reading what might be the beginning to a terrific screenplay.
In any event, since this is my first (and hopefully not my last) post, what I do know is this: I currently have an A2 (at least I think I do, although I can't seem to find it [no]). I mainly use it for music and sometimes for watching movies. I've been very happy with the audio and video quality, as well as the joystick. I haven't had trouble with the joystick. I usually listen to music before going to bed and don't like the light from the player. So I cut a square "hole" in the cover right around the joystick and now I can control it with the cover closed.
At the same time, I also don't like the fact that to get the A3 to do anything when the backlight times out and the screen goes dark, I have to move or press the joystick. Annoying. I'd rather it just respond to my movement (or pressing on it). So to avoid this, I set my player's backlight time to the max setting (6 min, I believe) so I don't have to deal with the extra step involved in bringing the screen back to life. Sure it uses more battery but I charge it when it gets low, which in my opinion, is not an issue. Also haven't had a problem with the HDD "skipping".
One thing about the A2 I dislike is the weight and bulk. If it were lighter and more easily carried in a pocket, I would take it with me frequently. My daughter has a 16gb D2 which she absolutely loves, but I tend to dislike touchscreens because it requires you look at it to control it (is this true actually? are any of you able to control it by feel alone?). I must have big fingers or something cause I'm not very good at controlling my daughter's D2.
So I've read all the posts in this thread and in others and what I'm wondering is what you guys would recommend. My needs and dislikes:
-a much more portable player than the A2 (not too heavy or bulky)
-a non touchscreen device (unless one can learn to control it by feel)
-whatever codecs any of the late model cowons have are fine
-30GB or more is preferable
-no need for flash mem
-if I can surf the net with one of these devices then great
-top notch video quality is important, although I use the player mainly for music, so I can live with so-so video if that's gotta give
-price not an issue (music, video and functionality are too impt. to worry about a few bucks one way or the other)
-bluetooth would be great, but I already own a pair of Shure 310s which I love, although I'd be willing to buy great quality wireless headphones if need be
Any thoughts or feedback would be much appreciated. I sincerely hope this post is not too long.
--Josh
This is a tough one mate. The O2 is very portable and can be used by feel alone...when listening to music I can raise volume, skip songs by feel alone. But I think you might prefer an Archos 5 if you don't want flash memory. With the archos you can also surf, there is no bluetooth though. It isn't that portable but a bit more portable than the A2/A3.
sadly you missed the generation that had a player that fits several of those descriptions. the Archos 605 has good video quality and even though is a touchscreen, it has a full set of tactile buttons. it also comes in 30gb. also it has the internet (slow, but its theres). its fairly light as well. but it doesnt have great sound quality, codec support, or blue tooth. that would be covered by the O2 or the S9.
the S9 would be your best bet if you could deal with half the space. it has great sound and video quality, enough tactile buttons to control playback by feel, bluetooth..good audio codec support (not so much video)...however the highest capacity version is only 16GB (deal breaker for myself). though a 32GB version is "planned".
Honestly, you need the new Sony. It'll be 32gb, good video, touchscreen with buttons, wi fi, and very good audio. Its the x series. Currently, Cowon does not offer anything like that(with internet), that's really portable. The q5 is big, like the archos 5. It should be a very good device.
And as for the thread, kinda hard for some people to keep it civil with the title:)
The o2 is a lot better than people think. It'd good for the other 95%
auxiliary
03-04-2009, 14:36
So I've read all the posts in this thread and in others and what I'm wondering is what you guys would recommend. My needs and dislikes:
-a much more portable player than the A2 (not too heavy or bulky)
-a non touchscreen device (unless one can learn to control it by feel)
-whatever codecs any of the late model cowons have are fine
-30GB or more is preferable
-no need for flash mem
-if I can surf the net with one of these devices then great
-top notch video quality is important, although I use the player mainly for music, so I can live with so-so video if that's gotta give
-price not an issue (music, video and functionality are too impt. to worry about a few bucks one way or the other)
-bluetooth would be great, but I already own a pair of Shure 310s which I love, although I'd be willing to buy great quality wireless headphones if need be
Any thoughts or feedback would be much appreciated. I sincerely hope this post is not too long.
--Josh
As the one who started this post, and despite my propaganda for the A3, I actually think it should count for something that the best thing you could possibly do for your requirements is get an....
O2!!! [thumbsup] :D There's a new one on eBay at the moment for 150 pounds, as posted by someone on here!
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