DVD Transfer--Q5 vs. A3

[maclen]

I've read these forums thoroughly and I wanted to confirm something that, if true, is somewhat astonishing. The A3 (which is $200 cheaper than the Q5 for the same size hard drive) will accept the direct transfer of unencrypted DVDs while the Q5 will not. My understanding is that the A3 reads VOB files but the Q5 does not. I realize that the Q5 has a larger screen, has bluetooth and wifi, but isn't this a very basic requirement that Cowon has neglected if it truly wants the Q5 to be its flagship product? Can this be later corrected in a firmware upgrade (somewhat like the Archos 605's plug in option for VOB files) or am I missing something? I want to purchase either the Q5 or the A3 for viewing movies (my D2's screen is too small), and the direct transfer of DVDs (even with larger files) is a great feature. I can't believe Cowon omitted this in the Q5, especially given its steep price. Thanks.

[jontupper]

Why would a company procude two devices that had the same function? I think we both know why.

On top of that, the a3 is a dedicated video device. It has ITS OWN PROCESSOR for decoding video, its not a software decoder. Thats why the a3 is the a3 and the q5 is the q5. If you want VOB,its obvious that you want the a3...

I don't know why people are so suprised at this... the q5 is a "premium pmp" not in the sense that It will do anything that you want. Its features are more "luxiorous" like wireless internet and bluetooth for headphones. WHat YOU and people like you want is called a UMPC or a laptop, not a PMP. It is what it is and people need to accept that. People talk like they've been betrayed... its starting to get somewhat foolish. If you want a device that can do everything, use a PC. if you want a PMP with extra features, look to cowon. They do not sell umpcs.

And on top of all this, the q5w uses the FAT32 filesystem, so transferring files above 4gb is impossible, perhaps affecting your desires to watch any kindof large video. Not sure about the a3.

Archos didn't correct any issue with VOB, they just screwed you by making you pay more for it, just like apple would.

" but isn't this a very basic requirement that Cowon has neglected if it truly wants the Q5 to be its flagship product?" They don't, they never said that. you did, because you want it to be something more then wehat it is! you want a umpc!

By the way a little searching around (or even visiting the product webpage and READING ABOUT IT) would have answered your questions, with little to no sarcasm)

I'm sorry but threads like this just seemto be so redundant and I think they're taking away from the actual development of this community.

So to sum it up, you answered your own question with your closing line "I want a video player for watching movies". You don't seem to need wifi or bluetooth, so isn't there an obious choice? Nobody can tell you online which device to buy... you're in serious trouble if you get advice from the internet.

[Munich]

@jontupper

Sorry, but I not agree with you. Maclen says what everybody is thinking...
I know exactly what he want´s...the same like me...and yeeees we want a UMPC, but of course with the same sound and picture quality like a Cowon. That it is. But with a UMPC you dont have good sound and not so good picture quality....
And now Cowon release a product with a fabolous 5" screen for what? To browse in the internet? Comon...this screen is crying for DVD stuff in best Quality! So shit, yes...it has to play VOB Files.
Otherwise I can buy a ASUS eeePC for 299,- and have more fun....and yes I will do this...a buy a A3 and a eeePC :-) for only 99,- more I have two great toys...

[chauncy_the_dog]

Here's my thoughts- the a3 has a dedicated davinci chip for video- but it has caused a much lower battery life for the a3. The q5 with its bigger screen, if given the davinci chip, would eat through it at a faster pace. Perhaps that is why it doesn't have davinci and vob playing capapbilities.

However, I think this is a bit of a non issue. I know vob files don't use any compression so quality is higher- but so is size! A DVD these days is like 6gb- I rip at 1500 bits in 1.5gb.

Owning a q5 I can tell you I've never seen any device play back videos with this kind of clarity and brightness. I can't see that a vob file, on a 5inch screen, would give better quality. Now that might give a better pic on a tv out situation.

So maybe playing vob files is a convinence issue- you don't have to convert the vob file after ripping it. But... you still have to rip it, don't you? And most ripping programs will rip straight from dvd to avi.

These two players do different things - wireless internet was big for me, and don't forget the coming gps for q5. The a3 plays native vob files and does some neat recording tricks. Features were left off either player just provide different products.

And to you frustrated umpc people- I agree with you! I want a do it all device that plays music anc video like these players. yeah, and when you find one let me know.....

[cbnash]

I also do not agree. All this BS..Cowon, just put support for VOB files on this device, simple!

[tabv]

I'm one that would really like the Q5 to support .vob files...and I won't buy the A3 just for that..I'm waiting to see if Cowon will support this or if there is another player that you can install on the Q5 that will play .vob files...until then I won't buy the Q5.

Not sure why it isn't?? Maybe the CPU can't handle it, I don't know?? Maybe it's more complicated than we think?? Don't really know why they didn't include it in the supported formats..?

[chauncy_the_dog]

Like I said I think it's that davinci chip in the a3. I hope I'm wrong but if it's the chip no fw will fix it.

[Overfunction]

A VOB files is just a container with the video portion stored as a specialized MPEG-2 stream. As long as it not encrypted it will play as long as the codecs and software are there. I'll try changing the extension from .VOB to .MPG and see if they play that way and let you know.

[LennyB]

Alchemy Au1250 do has some hardware acceleration for video

incorporates an integrated Media Acceleration Engine optimized for video to eliminate the
need for DSPs and specialized coding.

http://www.razamicroelectronics.com/products_alchemy/au1250_overview.htm

http://www.razamicroelectronics.com/products_alchemy/au1200_p_media_player.htm

[snowdogging]

The Q5 plays native mpeg2 video files. Some vobs will work...some won't. The ones that won't work are the ones that require the dvd menu library. Someone could port a version of that library to the Q5 if they wanted to. The xbox media center group did that and got full dvd support.

The real question is why would you want to do that. DVD's are 9 gigs. You can compress that into a 1.5 gig mpeg4 video with almost no visual loss in video quality. And on a 5 inch screen you can compress it a lot more than that. VOB is a dead bloated format and I don't see why a PMP would even want to support it.

[tabv]

The reason for wanting it to play .vob files snowdogging is because it would be so awesome to rip a dvd straight to the Q5 that way I could burn it to a dvd without menus right from there and I'd have it on the Q5 to play it back on a TV when I travel or visit. This way there would be no reason to convert to avi's whatsoever.

The rips always end up being around 4gb's

[maclen]

Munich, cbnash and tabv, my thoughts exactly.

As for jontupper, let me respond as follows:

1. Cowon is already producing two devices that have many of the same functions, so I'm not sure what point you are making.

2. Please don't presume to know what I or others want. Indeed, I don't want a UMPC or laptop; I want a PMP that records and plays as many audio and video formats as possible, with the quality that I've come to expect from Cowon. And I would like this PMP with a 5" screen. It is you that seems unable to distinguish correctly between a PMP and a UMPC in not realizing that the Q5 is much more of a UMPC than the A3. In the first sentence of Wired's December 11 review of the Cowon Q5, the reviewer states: "Cowon's newest media player seems more like an Ultra Mobile PC than a PMP." And for good reason. The Q5 has wifi, bluetooth and many windows functions that are associated with a UMPC, not a PMP.

3. I think you are missing the point here about people's expectations about this product. These expectations, whether encouraged or not by Cowon, are those of the buying public. Don't you think that it is very telling that just on this thread alone, there are at least three participants who are not happy about the Q5 and will likely wait until modifications are made or will pass on the player entirely? And what about the reviews of the Q5? I have not seen one recent and comprehensive positive review of the Q5. The reviews have been lukewarm at best (gadgetaholic), to critical (wired) to scathing (pc magazine), and while I agree with everyone that pc mag's reviews are not to be trusted, I do trust gadgetaholic's reviews, since they are thorough and thoughtful.

In sum, you don't speak for me and you don't speak for the development of the Cowon community. I hardly think that the development of the community is well served by people like you who cannot engage in civil discourse and must make personal attacks. We are not all foolish and redundant. We are disappointed in a product that could be so much better.

[jontupper]

I don't know how long you've been following the forums here, but my experience comes from owning a a2, following all the posts on that forum, and now the release of the q5. I've seen the same thing with the a2 as I am seeing with the q5 and i'm expressing my frusteration. People seem to come along, misread information, assume a whole bunch, then ask questions, to which many of the replies are "search the forum". I don't disagree with someones right to discuss their desires, as I am doing just that, and I certainly don't intend to attack anyone personally.

When you see the same pattern month over month, it seems to get frusterating. Especailly when almost every new post is a question that could be answered by reading the product webpage. It, to me, discourages development (I as a developer would not want to particiapate in such a community...)

And now, just because a couple people say its "priced like a umpc" or "could act like a umpc" everyone is going around pretty well just complaining that the device isn't up to their expectations. This thing is NOT A UMPC. at all. It doesn't have anywhere near the features of a UMPC, nor the price.So Why are these people here I wonder? Are they waiting for something? Some people have made it clear they've sticking around to wait for firmware developemnts, which I agree with, i'm doing the same. But others just seem to be getting threatened by mods... the forum is almostout of control with this kind of "outrage". Almost every thread has a mod posting in it threatening to keep it on topic.

This is the "umpc" expectation i'm speaking of that everyone seems to have. The way I regard it, any features outside of video/audio are just bonuses on a pmp, i think some people should realize that and stop getting almost offended that cowon didn't cater to their specific needs.

We all talk about how adding vob should be so simple. How the heck does anyone know why cowon didn't include in the q5w? Fact is, they didn't and they've got a reason for it. Its somewhat ignorant to assume that "the a3 has it therfore the q5 shoudl too". We're just a bunch of people commenting on something we don't understand, then getting adgitated when we try to defend it. Why doesn't it have vob? The same reason every fridge doesn't have FM radio-- its got the room , but you just can't put every feature in every item, you've got to make a sacrifice... its just seems obvious that this is jus tone of the sacrifices. Who knows, maybe they just didn't have the time to do it without pissing off every single one of their customers (they came pretty close, if not successful in this)

Therfore, I agree with your disappointment, but to say that the product could be better is, I think, the most unproductive possible thing to say. Everything released could be better, always. Ntohing will ever ever be to everyoines satisifaction. The productive thing to do would be to look at how we can make what we have better (develop) insted of concentrating on the negatives, and in my view, trying to convice yourself this is a umpc is just a waste of time.

We all know cowon. Vob support will more then likely come along, with quite a few other features. Thats good old cowon. reviews are crap right now, I agree, I wouldn't trust one of them.

So again,, i'm not trying to attack anyone, just expressing my disapproval. It would be a shame for this forum to be filled with topics like "should I buy the q5" cause I swear i've already seen about 3. Its comforting to know the peers in your community take as much time to read the information as you do... its almost like a classmate asking you for your homework all the time, they just don't want to do their own work./...

@maclean: read around the forum and you'll be able to find out all the information you'll need, especially the little bitsand peices that tend to make or break a purchase for someone (ie- actual improvements on the device, because all the reviews done atm are on old, crappy firmware.) There's lots of info out there, better then you'll be able to get by asking. People who have particular bits of info will only repeat themselves so many times... The forum is still young so it will be easy to read it all.

[LJBlazer]

what software do you use to do a straight conversion to divx or MPEG with what specs for the Q5w?

[Trom]

I too was a bit put off when I found out the Q5 did not support Vob files and esp when the A3 did. However I have since come round to "chauncy_the_dog" point of view. I suspect it was/is our familiarity with ripping DVD's to the vob format with decrypter and such that lead to this but consider chauncy argument for a mo. Most movie downloads from the web these days are in avi(xvid) format with a full DVD taking up approx 700MB worth of hd space and having downloaded it you can play it on the Q5 without reprocessing(for the most part). Sure the PQ of this is not as good as a ripped DVD to vobs but that is on a TV or PC screen, on a 5" screen there would be very little difference and you are saving a lot of disc space. Now follow this on and rip your DVD's straight to xvid, again the quality on a 5" screen will be v.good and you are saving disc space to boot and it takes no more time/work to convert from DVD to xvid than from DVD to Vobs. The only scenario where it would be more desirable to play vobs imo is if you are outputting the vobs from the Q5 to a TV but would you not just stick the DVD in your DVD player at this point.

LJBlazer try this, AVS Video Converter - http://www.avs4you.com/AVS-Video-Converter.aspx?type=GoogleAdWordsSearch&gclid=COz53Pri0JACFQ2WEgodmwKEXA. There are many others available on the net just google it. Divx converter is another. As for settings it will soon become apparent what ppl think works best but it's a good idea to do a few conversions yourself at the defaults and take it from there.

[LennyB]

DVD vob is mpeg2 and divx/xvid avi is mpeg4 and mpeg4 totally own mpeg2 if both uses same amount of biterate. The only reason dvd looks good casue of high bitrate somewhere in the 5000 vs most avi rips are somewhere 900-1500. Experience encoder can apply right amount sharpening,light smoothing and uses of timecode, a 2-cd avi rips will pawn dvd. As for stright untouch rips of dvd you need about 2cd and a half to out do dvd in quarlity. space saving wise is anywhere from 4-5 gb per movie. most high quarlity dvd movie are 7-8 gb. Try watching dvd on you pc monitor (non lcd) at high resolution setting u can see the different. The only exception when vob is desire is when you are watching a movie with lots i mean ton of action scene like for example Tranformer/kung fu movies. High motion scene does benefit from high bitrate but then again watching movie like tranformer on a 5 inch screen (Q5w) is mainly for bragging right. Also movie with ton of dark scene high bitrate is a must that where h264 comes in.

H264, the reason we want h264 casue it futher the compression ratio which means even smaller file size at the same quarlity. Better dark scene compression and better motion detection but a huge hit on cpu process cycles. As for using A3 for video playback (which Q5w has no h264 support) which A3 has is not much better then Q5w beside mkv support. As of current A3 situation it can't decode h264 main profile or high profile which is pretty much usless as a h264 decodeing platform device. H264 low profile vs divx/xvid pretty much the same, you save maybe 100mb ish off 1 cd rips 200-300mb ish off 2Cd-rip in same encoding setting. Also most rips that use mkv container are all main profile or high profile h264/x264 except for psp/ipob video/itouch which uses h264 low (portable) profile .

It better to use mpeg4 then dvd vob for portable device for the sake of HD space.

[TransAmFRK]

I don't know who said they were gonna try it but they had it right. All you have to do is change the file extension from .VOB to .MPG since .VOB is in fact mpeg2. Works on every video I've tried it on.[thumbsup] Sure you save space on your drive by converting it. My issue is I like to back up my DVD on hard drive then I can just throw them on the Cowon whenever, and if I scratch or loose a disc I still have the full quality version backed up. So for me it's worth the extra hard drive space.