20Gb X5 vs 40Gb H340?

[Paul]

Ok so the final review is back and I would like to see a debate on this. Here in Ireland the 20Gb X5 is set to retail around the same price as the 40Gb iRiver H340.

So the question is, why choose the X5 over the H340 if it's half the storage for the same money? How do these two compare & contrast?

[yodudedudeyo]

well check out www.misticriver.net forums, theres tons of stuff about the iRiver H3xx and the iAudio x5. I have been debating the same thing myself, and in the end, i've chosen to get the x5, because its newer and easier to use. X5 also gets mcuh more customer support in terms of firmware updates.

[Darkroom]

I was in the store to buy H340 when I saw that they had X5 on the shelves and found out that had been released the same day. I decided to give it another week, and I finally decided for X5. Here's some of my reasoning:

- iRiver got the highest mark in a Hifi magazine test (A hifi magazine would focus on sound quality rather than color screens and gimmicks), in the test the sound was described "Distinguished" and "The only player we've tested that has a sound comparable to CD and minidisk players."
As the sound quality is the absolutely defining thing for me, it was a tough choice to decide to go with iaudio. I read enough reviews that said the iaudio sound is as good as iriver, and decided to take the risk. (Need to be said, iaudio was not among the players tested in the magazine)

- H340 LCD remote is almost impossible to get, and the regular nonLCD remote is ridiculously expensive in Sweden where I currently reside (almost $60 + S&H). M3 LCD remote is cheaper than iriver non-LCD.


- Reports about 'clicking' when the LCD remote is connected to H340. (Read in the X5 review that X5 has the same problem)

- I figured the metal casing would be more durable with less fingerprints. The looks don't really matter to me.

- iriver screen has better resolution, not important to me as I am only interested in playing music.

- iaudio has flac support, i river does not. this is important to me.

- I think I would like the iriver push buttons better than the iaudio stick, as I imagine these would be easier to operate by feel with the unit in my pocket.

- iriver has tag database - I probably wouldn't use it anyway, as my music is well organized, and it increases boot time.

- browsing with iriver is SLOOOOW... you would have to re-organize your files with no more than some 15 albums in a folder, else moving the cursor to the last one would take annoyingly long time. (To me this sounds like a major annoyance)

- i kind of like the underground hacker image that iriver has with homemade skins to download from the internet etc. The 'difficult to undersstand' user interface is almost a plus in my eyes. I donno why, it just appeals to me.


These were some of the things that were going through my mind when I finally decided to go with X5. I've done some extensive research around iriver and iaudio, and I know that whichever you choose you will have an excellent DAP. Can't go wrong with either one.

Edited to add: iriver does not have on-the-fly playlist. The iaudio has a very limited, but just the ability to que more than one track is very important.

[Paul]

Thanks guys. I'm really leaning to the X5 but I'm still finding it hard to justify the price. All the articles and opinions I've read so far say the H340 is the better value for money and comparable on features with the X5.

I've yet to hear a hard argument for either one which finally pushes the debate in its favour.
So can anyone think of one?

[bradavon]

Yep:

The H3xx range are much larger!
The X5L is fantastic battery power

[Shadow Skill]

NO OMFG do NOT get an Iriver H340 I have one and it BLOWS here is why:

No working id3tag database support, for some ungodly reason the database does the following: Say I have one folder and it has twelve albums in it without any sub directories if I browse by any of the database views it will go in the track order instead of the actual order of the files as listed in the query view! In other words say you want to play track twelve of album C instead of it simply advancing to the next track within album C it might go to track seven of album Z by a totally different artist depending on the order of the files in the actual folder tree!

Let me tell you something this NEVER happens in any manner of database I have ever seen or used EVER, it renders the existence of the database pointless if it is still constrained by the folder tree structure as the Iriver is. You MUST have your folder tree match one of the query views in structure in order for the database to behave in a normal manner.

Oh by the way the Iriver tech support person I emailed said that this database "functionality" was normal and intended.... Makes me wonder who was the idiot who coded that "feature" into the firmware.

I have had this player since late december of last year and there is STILL no firmware update available for download for the US player despite the existence of one maybe even two firmware versions for the US model. The reason for this is wrapped up in the implementation of DRM in the H300 series, you basically have tp break DRM playback in order to update the firmware hence no official releases for download.

Oh by the way those face buttons are smashed so close together that you may have trouble if you have large hands like me, I'd take my chances with the joystick even though I imagine itll be just as bad really.

Don't forget that you cannot scroll through playlists on the Iriver H340, in short you cannot do what you do with playlists on the Ipod the x5, and pretty much every software audio player in existence since at least 2000.

The Iriver expects you to hammer the fast forward and rewind buttons to move through your playlists and mine tend to be twenty or thirty tracks so this can get very annoying very fast, especially since I often forget some of the songs that are in the playlists and would really love to keep the song I am currently playing, playing while I look through my lists. This brings me to one last thing that you cannot do with the Iriver look at your playlists while music is playing.........You have to stop all playback in order to take a look at the various playlists you have on your player.

There is probably more stuff I am forgetting right now but I think you get the idea.

[mintcheerios]

I dunno, twice the space for the same price? Doesn't sound too bad to me. The 340 seems pretty decent with the Korean firmware.

[Fido]

The tested remote was the original M3 version, the X5 version of the remote (the black one) might be improved and not have this, but I don't know.

But as far as it goes for me, since i'm american, the iRiver 40GB is priced 30$ MORE than the 30GB X5, so the choice is pretty solid for me.
But it sounds to me that in ireland the price of the X5 is ridiculously overpriced, maybe they're trying to rip you off since the player is new. You should look around to make sure that that's the cheapest price and maybe wait to see if it goes down.

Don't forget that the iRiver is bigger physically than the X5.

And hacker image? iRiver is teaming up with Microsoft, how much more "the man" can you get?

The impression I get is that the X5 OS is much better than iRiver.

[Shadow Skill]

Dude Just get an Iaudio x5 60gb when they come out, it probably will be around 450usd Judging by the current prices for the two models that are currently out you can probably pull it off for 375 or so USD if you shop around. I know I didn't pay the 440 some odd the H340 was listed for.

I also forgot to mention that the clock function breaks when you flash to EU or Korean firmware with US players.

I also don't understand why people think convoluded and inefficient makes something good while simple and effective is some how bad or not as cool. The Iriver is just convoluded its not actually good, the damned player doesn't seem to understand what a root menu is nor does it actually have features that many modern players including software based ones have.

It's pathetic, its the same insane logic that drives Linux users to worship featureless programs as bloat free while ot realizing that being feature rich is a good thing. People still to this day swear that XMMS=winamp, this is only true when you are talking about the second to last major version change from winamp2 to winamp3 and we are on to winamp5 now yet xmms and the other clones only have the feature set of winamp2! For the love of God get some modern players like Amarok and compare them to the current winamp geez! I hope anyone reading that last paragraph can see how lame the whole idea of featureless products is.

[Fido]

There is no way you will find the X5 60GB new for $375.

And what are you talking about a featureless product? I have no idea where you pulled that out of. The iAudio and iRiver both have tons of features (except iAudio implements them better) Also your 3rd and 4th paragraphs seems to contradict each other.

[motobecane]

There's a bunch of us who want the DAP to listen to music. I will have it in my pocket with my phones over my ears, and any feature that goes beyond good sound will be wasted on me. It's the same thing I don't get that people make such a big deal about their telephones, all I care about is to dial the # and make a call.

I don't think that is pathetic or insane, rather it is a sober and rational view on what you expect these things to dofor you. I have a life, I've got my friends - I don't need gadgets to spend time with.

[Paul]

Great stuff guys, finally we get down the the bottom of things. As for Ireland let me just show you how bad things are over here. The latest guesses on pricing are:

X5 20Gb = €360 = $452
X5L 30Gb = €410 = $514
X5 60Gb = €500-600 = $628-754

The H340 is €360/$452 also.

It's standard practice here for all electronics manufacturers to add AT LEAST €100 to the retail price when compared tp the states over here and on the mainland.

Even with those prices I'll still be getting a X5, It'll be worth it in the long run.

[Fido]

I asume that in Ireland the stores try to take advantage of the inflated prices by overpricing new items over the overpriced old items, since the iAudios in the US are both cheaper than the H340 I would think that the price would lower in ireland, but I don't know how long that would take, depends on how lucky you feel. Maybe you should wait a month to be safe, if you can bear it.

[bradavon]

I dunno, twice the space for the same price? Doesn't sound too bad to me. The 340 seems pretty decent with the Korean firmware.
OR European I believe they're essentially the same.

[Darkroom]

I dunno, twice the space for the same price? Doesn't sound too bad to me. The 340 seems pretty decent with the Korean firmware.
OR European I believe they're essentially the same.


No, unfortunately. The European firmware must comply to the French law, according to which the output may not exceed 15mw at 16 Ohm. Thus all the European irivers are firmware-crippled so they would be able to sell them in France.

The [not confirmed] good news for us is that according to a French forum I visited recently, it may be that X5 will not be made available in France, and so the European X5 will probably have the same output as the rest of the world.

Else, it will be easily fixed by downloading the Korean firmware.

Other difference will be FM regions. I remember someone telling me that the iriver Korean version covers all continents, while the European version only covers the European frequences.

[bradavon]

One reason for the higher prices in Ireland is the Euro. It's more expensive generally now in Ireland since the Euro. Irish prices aren't greatly different from the rest of Western Europe.

I could save a bucket and get it form America but what if it breaks and I need to send it back?

[Shadow Skill]

There is no way you will find the X5 60GB new for $375.

And what are you talking about a featureless product? I have no idea where you pulled that out of. The iAudio and iRiver both have tons of features (except iAudio implements them better) Also your 3rd and 4th paragraphs seems to contradict each other.


Then you must believe ity would be impossible to find an Iriver H340 last december for under 400usd, the reason I gestimated 375 is based on the prices for the other two models I don't see the 60gb model breaking the 500usd mark if they are smart with the pricing, if it gets so steep that ti starts getting into the Ipod photo range which wouldn't be smart for any of these companies since Apple's product is more readily recognizeable and has that cool factor that people tend to look for. If I had waited till January I could have purchased it for 350usd when his thing MSRP'ed for about 440usd so after tax and shipping I would have spent 100usd more than I had to.

The reason I said featureless was not in reference to the Iriver player specifically I was trying to draw a parallel between the logic that leads people to worship convoluded as opposed to effective interfaces is the same logic that leads people to worship programs that lack features claiming that they lack "bloat" which is often a diceptive term since even commandline applications that do not require gui's can suffer from bad code that makes them operate slower than they should. But anyway you would have to have experienced these various Winamp2 clones and their weakness to really understand my point.

The total lack of decent playlist handling and a database that is so laughably broken that it mine as well not be there since it is not very useable when it comes down to it means that as an MP3 player its most important features aside from actually being able to decode the given formats [Which anything in its class can do especiallly if you are charged for it.] it is indeed featureless in terms of interface when put next to an Ipod or a Zen or of course the Iaudio players. [Damn it will the 60gb come out in the states already!!]

Moto it is indeed pathetic to have things that are incapable of performing relatively standard functions that are indeed centred around audio playback. Sure they all play music but not all of them let you do things like browse through your files in an efficient manner as oppossed to chugging through a folder tree which only has one sort method [I truly hope a good database is implemented soon in the x5. Lucky for me I craft playlists so I can live without that particular feature.] It stops being about simply playing back the sound since everything can do that and it is all but a given, it becomes infinetly more important to make the entire experience of managing one's music as good as possible.

[Fido]

You wont find the 60GB version for $45 less than the iPod variant, not when it comes out, maybe a year later.
The H340 is 20GB less than 60GB so I wouldn't expect it to cost more than $400.

[Shadow Skill]

but it did cost approximately 450usd I remeber seeing it for 475usd in some places which was just disgusting. The x5 60gb variant probably won't push 500usd if anything I don't know, like I said I am really just estimating here.

[Fido]

The X5 needs to compete with iPod, $500 would not happen, I would expect them to match the iPod equivalent in space price ($420). The H340 came out a while ago, when it did come out the price was a bit more reasonable for 40GB.

[Tanthalas]

I cannot believe how badly Europe and the UK get ripped off. Here the Americans are talking about getting 60GB versions for $450 and it's 425 Euros just for the 30GB X5L - that's $530!



Heh, this idiot wants $400 for the 20GB X5:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=73839&item=5775668841&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

[Shadow Skill]

Well the hunt for the cheapest price (non ebay) will be interesting indeed.
Hmm wierd the Euro is stronger than the dollar and the Pound even more so last I checked perhaps you should order from here rather than get slammed with the equivalent of 530usd for a 30gb x5.

[Tanthalas]

Yeah, the only problem being that if I order from within the EU, there's no tax, but if I order from America, I get hit with a customs charge of about 20%!

[David H]

I'm in the UK but got my I5 from America. I ordered it through Amazon.com and had it delivered to a friend in San Francisco who was returning to the UK. I had to pay over the odds for delivery so that it would arrive in time but even with S&H and tax it was much cheaper to purchase it this way.

I think I saved about £40 (about $73). I know there's a risk that if it goes wrong I'd loose out but I'm sick and tired of having to pay inflated prices for damn near everything in the UK.

Fortunately my friend has just moved to Dubai... the home of cheap electronics.

[bradavon]

No, unfortunately. The European firmware must comply to the French law, according to which the output may not exceed 15mw at 16 Ohm. Thus all the European irivers are firmware-crippled so they would be able to sell them in France.
That's atrocious. It's Americana all over again!

How hard would it be for iRiver to create two firmware's? Not bloody hard enough!

I cannot believe how badly Europe and the UK get ripped off.
That's one in the same thing???