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View Full Version : Bought A Rio Karma To Compare With The M3


edbanky
05-15-2005, 02:11
Having sent my M3 back to Cowon for a replacement, I decided to hedge my bets by trying out one of its competitors (the OTHER FLAC player). Since New Egg was selling new Karmas for roughly what people will pay on eBay, I decided I would try the two units out head-to-head and sell the loser.

So far the Karma is kicking some serious ass, although there are many exceptions to that "ass"essment. Maybe the most important consideration is that several of the M3's features are useless or relatively unimportant to me. These include: FM radio, recording (a legitimate recording setup might be useful) & realtime encoding, any of the almost superfluous afterthoughts like A->B looping.

KARMA +
Among the more important considerations for me, the Karma has the following: Wonderful, clear sound, TRULY gapless playback, really intuitive tag-based organization, a nice big screen, (not quite sure how to explain this exactly) the build is such that I would feel comfortable dropping it in a pants pocket, and MOST IMPORTANTLY, flawless (so far) FLAC playback,.

M3+
Some of the important pluses for the M3:
A separate remote (this is turning out to be really important), cosmetic design wowness (including overall beauty, compactness, sleekness) and a good protective case.

KARMA-
The Karma has these shortcomings by my reckoning:
Ugliness (it is clunky and hearkens back to stuff from the 80s or something), high scratch potential (shiny plastic screen area coupled with lack of a useable case), awkward dimensions (it is shorter than the M3, but thicker--similar to a Klondike bar in dimensons), NO REMOTE offered or available (despite obvious intentions in early design of earphone jack)

M3-
The M3 exhibits these issues, in my book:
Lack of onboard screen, being too nice (I am almost scared to really "use" it cause it is so beautiful and thin), FLAC playback issues up the ass, freeze-ups, tedious navigation on a small, nearly symmetrical (making it harder to use by feel) remote, gaps/pops between tracks

Something else to consider is that I got the Karma only a few days ago, but I have already used it about 1/3 of the total time I have used the M3. I have read that the Karma drives have a high failure rate, and their warranty is a despicable 90 days long. So for my own safety, I am gonna really push my Karma's HDD to encourage failure in the next few weeks or--hopefully--last for a few years for me.

In the event that the Karma passes these rigors, I will probably be selling my M3 sometime soon. I will put it up in the classifieds if I do. If the Karma goes kaput, I will likely use the M3 through its warranty period (barring further issues), or maybe look at one of the new screen-having Cowon models, hoping that their hardware might better support FLAC.

Archae
05-15-2005, 03:14
Would the latest karma be more comparable to the X5 at this point?

Whats the battery life of the karma?

If you live in the US, how is Rio's support?

Piggen
05-15-2005, 07:51
I thougt that I have read somewhere that Rio changed from harddrive manufacturer because of the high failure rate. From Hitachi to Toshiba, I thought.

Tanthalas
05-15-2005, 15:31
I thought of getting a Karma instead of an M3 (or as I later decided, an X5). After trying one out in a shop though I thought it was generally a little clunky somehow. Couldn't quite put my finger on it. I'm used to being able to quickly pick up hardware, and soon go clickclickclickclickclick and have the song I want playing at the vol I want, etc. I just wasn't able to pick up the Karma like that.

soup440
05-15-2005, 19:31
I never had any problem at all with my Karma.

edbanky
05-17-2005, 18:54
Would the latest karma be more comparable to the X5 at this point?

The Karma is kind of a 1st and (probably) only generation unit, with no video playback capabilities. It really is a utilitarian listening device; it seems ideal for the user whose primary concern is sound.

So from my understanding of the X5, they are in completely separate ballparks. Even the M3 and Karma are hardly comparable at this point. To the extent that style and form factor are important, the M3 is great; to the extent that sound quality and control are prime considerations, the Karma is fantastic.

Part of my enthusiasm comes from further use, and finding truly parametric EQ at my fingertips, in addition to the other positives I mentioned.


Whats the battery life of the karma?
You can expect anywhere from 10-14 hours per charge, depending on how you use it. I am using it with FLAC and EQ exclusively, so I expect about 10 hours per charge.


If you live in the US, how is Rio's support?No experience so far, but if a 90 day warranty on a Brand New product is any indication, it is pretty bad. Thankfully, you've got the Riovolution.com forums, which are comparable to here, but with a lot more history under their belt. The conventional wisdom seems to be "buy the Karma and a 3rd party warranty". Again, trying to compare to the M3: you could get a brand new Karma and 4 years of warranty coverage and still come in well under the M3's price.

Archae
05-18-2005, 01:26
Not bad. Sounds like the rio is decent. Still, ill stay with the M3. Redoing my collection by tags instead of filenames would take forever.

For some of us, tag based organization is more of a pain than anything else.

True gapless playback is a definite plus, I wish the m3 had it. But honestly I haven't had a chance to be bothered by not having it yet.

The remote IMHO is invaluable to me. I love it.
Looks are also, admitedly a big thing for me. The M3 is beautiful.

The thing that clinches the M3 for me, though is that I actually have an M3L, and the 30 hour battery life has been a big benefit to me several times already.

Thanks for getting me thinking about the rio though. I hadn't thought it was such a good player.

Kjartan
05-18-2005, 09:52
So from my understanding of the X5, they are in completely separate ballparks. Even the M3 and Karma are hardly comparable at this point. To the extent that style and form factor are important, the M3 is great; to the extent that sound quality and control are prime considerations, the Karma is fantastic.


I the sound quality much worse on the iAudio M3?
I just ordered one yesterday :/

The only player I really have experience with is Ipod mini, does it have gapless playing?

edbanky
05-19-2005, 06:26
I think the M3 sound is very good. It is hard to separate the psychosomatic influence, but I think the Karma sounds significantly better. Since FLACs are lossless, and should sound as good as audio CD, it made me think the M3 was somehow lacking in sound. It is something else psychologically, to walk around with 40-50 full-quality favorite CDs on this TINY device, which is smaller than any CD player, tape player or minidisc recorder I have ever owned.

The M3 doesn't play gaplessly. Incidentally, I have read people's posts saying essentially "gapless isn't really important, except for with a handful of live or continous type albums"; I disagree. For a FLAC "album" to sound like the CD, the space between tracks, etc. should also be consistent with the original. Right after "Subbacultcha" ends I expect to hear Black Francis shout "I had me a vision!" as he starts up "D=RxT"*. I don't want to hear a small click, or have to wait an extra half-second.

To further update, I am still going strong on the Karma. Haven't used the M3 in a few days. I even made a case for the Karma out of electrical tape, vinyl and thread.

*Reference to Pixies album "Trompe le Monde" since that was literally the first example to come to mind

edbanky
05-25-2005, 02:39
On Saturday I will start an auction on eBay, selling my M3. The decision hasn't been based on any post-RMA problems; I have just been converted to the Karma. Have used the (formerly?) notoriously problematic Karma for about 2x as long as I used the M3, with no problems. I do plan to buy an extended warranty, which will bring my purchase total to ~$210 for the Karma, with 27 months of warranty coverage.

I will keep my eye open here and at Cowon, watching their next few iterations. I already think the x5 looks super cool, but just not quite up my alley. If anyone wants to know more about my experience with the Karma, let me know, and I'll review it, or whatever.

Once my auction starts, I will add a note to the marketplace section. Thanks.

David H
05-25-2005, 07:04
Slightly off the subject but where have I heard the name Ed Banky before? Is it from a novel or a film?

edbanky
05-25-2005, 19:01
Wow, you are the first person to ever notice or ask. Ward Stradlater was said to give girls "the time" in the back of Ed Banky's car, in Catcher in the Rye if I remember correctly. I have always liked the sound of the name.

David H
05-25-2005, 20:09
Of course! I'm actually re-reading 'Catcher in the rye' at the moment which is probably why it struck a chord. Holden's description of how red his younger brothers hair was is priceless.

Great book.

toda
06-12-2005, 02:07
i was a previous owner of the Rio Karma. great lil mp3 player. sound quality is its best asset. like mentioned, gapless playback is best of all plus i love the 'fade-in' feature of it as well where it fades 3-5sec at end of song to beginning of new one. also Rio DJ is a nice feature that i had used often. it lacks other features like the X5 and such but as a pure mp3 player, it was great. though i did experience some HD locks up a few times where I had to completely format it and re-load songs over. so after the 3rd time, I took it back to best buy and got it replaced (2yr PSP, came in handy) and got the H320. sound quality on H320 is great also and has features similar to X5.

now im contemplating whether or not to sell my H320 for an X5L .. hmmm =)

Fido
06-12-2005, 02:14
I've read too many karma horror stories where it would repeatedly fail after a month or so of use. I'm sure that not all of them do that but I'd rather not take chances and have to go through the trouble.

CheckerBird
06-12-2005, 02:36
If gapless playback is so important for an album's continuity, how about when ripping the CD, turn on the "Rip continuous selected tracks as one file" option available in the JetAudio program?

Vince
06-13-2005, 06:54
If gapless playback is so important for an album's continuity, how about when ripping the CD, turn on the "Rip continuous selected tracks as one file" option available in the JetAudio program?

But then you lose the track names and the ability to jump to a particular track.