Telling Cowon what the X7 should be

[emperorjvl]

This thread follows an initiative for sending Cowon a polite letter on behalf of all the people who would be willing to buy an X7. I am looking over the iAudio X7 poll thread and tabulating the features that most people want in a spreadsheet and will present the results in this thread. We can then discuss what can be reasonably expect and write out the letter with detailed (and realistic) propositions.

PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO THIS THREAD WITH SUGGESTIONS FOR X7, use the X7 POLL THREAD.

ALSO: the X5 was a DAP, not a PMP. If you want to see video, there's the D2, A2, etc etc. So suggestions for TV-outs, 5 inch screens, divx, etcetc are not being tabulated. Not that the X7 shouldn't have ANY vid capability, but the main purpose is MUSIC, period.
EDIT:

OK Results (in number of mentions in X7 Poll thread:

57: Larger HD (60GB to 120GB)
53: Long Battery Life
47: NO Subpack!
46: Keep great Codec Support (FLAC,OGG, etc)
45: Great Audio Quality
37: id3 tag browsing!
35: UMS/external hard drive with NO additional program to transfer files!
33: Bigger screen! (In keeping with the purpose of this thread, this will be taken to represent a G6 iPoo-classic size screen. Caveat Emptor.
30: Better USB-OTG, USB 2.0 (a great idea given by a user was that usb-otg = usb out to pc, eliminating need for subpack)
28: Gapless playback
27: NO Joystick (more on this below, regarding touchscreen)
22: Removable/replaceable battery
20: Solid quality casing/build of X5
18: FM tuner
14: 30 fps vid
12: Better/digital line-out
11: (tie): No hump, No "Color Sound" words. (!)
10: (ties) Better DPL (more below), see cover art, better picture viewing w/music
9: No File limits

Other mentions of good things on the X5 that should remain on the X7:
Clock
4 bumps on the back of the player
text viewer
NO impossibilization of adding 3rd party firmware (i.e. Rockbox)
Recording Functions (with a request for better bitrate for recorded files, and WAV record)

Other suggestions:

Better EQ with neg values
Dedicated volume buttons
bbe for all file types
hardened glass surface
Keep portrait orientation (not watch player sideways)
m-jpeg support
Crossfade ability
.aa support

The controversial ones:

a)9 votes for touchscreen, 13 for no touchscreen (This is a moot point. The screen size for the X7 should be close to Ipoo classic. That is too small for ts and nobody wants to be messing with a stylus in an X7. And as Zap mentioned: battery drain).

b)7 votes Wifi, 10 Bluetooth (Discuss whether this is realistic.)

c)3 votes for audio jack on top, 1 for keep it on the side.

d)3 specific votes don't mind if it's larger/thicker than Ipoo, 3 specific votes want thinner. The non-specific commenters didn't mind slightly larger/heavier X.

e)9 votes for SD slots. I happen to agree with this comment by one poster:"definitely USB OTG--what's the point of an SD slot if you have a digital camera using memory stick or compact flash formats? with the USB OTG you can connect to any USB device, even to your computer!" Which, added to the other great idea for the USB 2.0 above, makes it a revised, more powerful USB 2.0 by default.


OK, that's it. In summary, and to no one's great surprise:

People want a player similar to the X5, but with a bigger screen, a removeable/replaceable high capacity battery and a large storage capacity. It should have no subpack or joystick, and should support gapless and id3 tag browsing, and keep and improve the X5's functions. Video should remain secondary, but improved to 30 fps.

[upsidedown83]

Awesome... let's do this. It worked for Sublime fans & they got their rarities box set! http://www.amazon.com/Everything-Under-Sun-Sublime/dp/B000IU3YFK/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-9695164-3933424?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1189786780&sr=8-1

It should also be stated in the letter that the signees promise to buy said X7.

[zaphanathpaneah]

This thread follows an initiative for sending Cowon a polite letter on behalf of all the people who would be willing to buy an X7. I am looking over the iAudio X7 poll thread and tabulating the features that most people want in a spreadsheet and will present the results in this thread. We can then discuss what can be reasonably expect and write out the letter with detailed (and realistic) propositions.

PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO THIS THREAD WITH SUGGESTIONS FOR X7, use the X7 POLL THREAD.

ALSO: the X5 was a DAP, not a PMP. If you want to see video, there's the D2, A2, etc etc. So suggestions for TV-outs, 5 inch screens, divx, etcetc are not being tabulated. Not that the X7 shouldn't have ANY vid capability, but the main purpose is MUSIC, period.

Excellent. Music...NO VIDEO...just music

[emperorjvl]

Interim report:

About the page 5 conclusions by dfkt:

Seriously, this thread seems to have some nice conclusions:

Most people love (- already implemented in the X5 or not):
audio quality
codec support
metal case and the color 'black'
X5L battery life
user replaceable battery
UMS/MSC support, no software needed
gapless playback
a clean, non-tacky/cartoony GUI
big HDDs

Most people hate:
subpack
screen
USB 1.1 OTG
"Color Sound" (not an issue anymore, I guess - Cowon learned from their mistakes...)
9999 files limitation

Opinions differ widely about:
navigation (joystick, touchpad, etc.)
design (to hump or not to hump, etc.)
USB-OTG/SD-slot
wireless connectivity (Bluetooth, WIFI)
ID3-browsing (while keeping folder-based browsing)
album art
TV-out, 30fps video (some people don't care or want an audio-only player)
location of the headphone-jack

I might have missed or misinterpreted some things - feel free to correct my list.


My own list indicates, so far (page 5 of the thread:


More than 20 mentions: Long battery life, bigger HD, audio quality, bigger screen.

More than 16 mentions: NO subpack, use UMS (ext drive), codec support (FLAC OGG etc)
More than 8 mentions: NO Joystick, USB-OTG 2.0, id3 tag, Gapless, Replaceable battery, build quality of X5.

[caliaa]

Where do I sign?

[zaphanathpaneah]

As we go along .....we can refine this. I would like to offer to write a sample letter and post it here. Critique it as much as needed so we can perfect it.

[upsidedown83]

Interim report:
Most people love:
...the color 'black'
[biggrin][yes]

Most people hate:
screen That's a bit too ambiguous.
IMO feelings on the screen are summed up well here: “This is first a massive storage digital audio player, and second a vid/pic/text viewer!” Sure certain aspects of it may be hated (pixel count, 'Color Sound', etc.), but not the screen all together. We don't want to devolve (M3) either.

Most people hate:
subpack
"Color Sound" (not an issue anymore, I guess - Cowon learned from their mistakes...)
9999 files limitation
'Hate' perhaps is not a strong enough word... we loath these things! [laugh]

I might have missed or misinterpreted some things - feel free to correct my list.
You're doing a great job! Keep it up!

[upsidedown83]

As we go along .....we can refine this. I would like to offer to write a sample letter and post it here. Critique it as much as needed so we can perfect it.
Cool, get started on a rough draft and post it when you're ready. Meanwhile emperorjvl will dig through the X7 Poll thread & I'll be waiting to critique your rough draft.[biggrin]

[caliaa]

I think one of our strongest points could be the fact that so many X5 users are considering buying an 80/160GB iPod, just for the lack of a decent alternative **coughsoutofdesperation**. And of course the market for a large capacity MUSIC player is still huge.
Edit. Even an estimate date would be a good thing.

[emperorjvl]

Sorry upsidedown83, but those things you mentioned I QUOTED from page 5 of the X7 Poll, the post is by dfkt (sp?). My own comments were at the bottom.

Results are in and I will post them in the first post!!!

[emperorjvl]

Regarding the better DPL feature and other OF features: I would like someone to go through the firmware thread in the X5 section and tabulate the features most desired by users for the original firmware, so we can add that to our suggestions for an X7 firmware.
I believe a lot of the X5's faults were due to that.

Caliaa, are you up to it?

[caliaa]

yes, but not till monday. i have to work this weekend

[addz]

This is a excellent idea people. There is truly a lot of people out there wanting to buy a "x7" type mp3 player. Ive checked over at head-fi and a lot of members are opting out of Cowon to purchase a ipod classic.

A few pointers I would like to bring up are;

1. I think that we should look into the range of hardware available to support such a device and its costs for such a company like Cowon, the more information we can feed to Cowon the more they are likely to take it serious.

2. Is this letter going to be hand delivered to the Cowon Systems Building in Korea? I can get a few names of people working at Cowon:

Park NamGyu sounds like our man to address (the CEO of Cowon Systems Inc.) There is also a Mr. Ki-Woong Lee (Cowon's Managing Director for Sales Marketing). Gi-Ung Lee (vice president of Sales and Marketing for Cowon.) There is also a specific dept who deal with the Mp3 Player Development.

3. Maybe we need somewhere accessible for people to sign once/after a letter/statement is drafted up; to show dedicated customers. Somewhere online?

[winnyec]

May I add one more request, which I think appeared 1-3 times in the poll and I believe is not unrealistic, since it means only bypassing the DAC, that is a digital out (either optical or coaxial). People are still looking hard to find iRiver h1x0 only because of this feature.

I've got no clue if DAB is unrealistic, but they managed to cram it into the tiny D2. I agree that screen and video are not a big issue... but I am getting dangerously into the Poll thread.

EDIT: I mean both analog and digital out.

[upsidedown83]

This is a excellent idea people. There is truly a lot of people out there wanting to buy a "x7" type mp3 player. Ive checked over at head-fi and a lot of members are opting out of Cowon to purchase a ipod classic.

A few pointers I would like to bring up are;

1. I think that we should look into the range of hardware available to support such a device and its costs for such a company like Cowon, the more information we can feed to Cowon the more they are likely to take it serious.

2. Is this letter going to be hand delivered to the Cowon Systems Building in Korea? I can get a few names of people working at Cowon:

Park NamGyu sounds like our man to address (the CEO of Cowon Systems Inc.) There is also a Mr. Ki-Woong Lee (Cowon's Managing Director for Sales Marketing). Gi-Ung Lee (vice president of Sales and Marketing for Cowon.) There is also a specific dept who deal with the Mp3 Player Development.

3. Maybe we need somewhere accessible for people to sign once/after a letter/statement is drafted up; to show dedicated customers. Somewhere online?

I was thinking about some of these issues tonight as well. We should have a Korean (or someone fluent in Korean) from the forums translate it into Korean for us to send to the head guys there just to show how serious we are. I'm sure that most of them probably speak English, but it might be just an added bonus.

Another thing... we should include the url to the X7 Poll (http://iaudiophile.net/forums/showthread.php?t=11781) thread just in case for potential R&D purposes. This thread has certainly renewed interest in it!

[emperorjvl]

This is a excellent idea people. There is truly a lot of people out there wanting to buy a "x7" type mp3 player. Ive checked over at head-fi and a lot of members are opting out of Cowon to purchase a ipod classic.

A few pointers I would like to bring up are;

1. I think that we should look into the range of hardware available to support such a device and its costs for such a company like Cowon, the more information we can feed to Cowon the more they are likely to take it serious.

2. Is this letter going to be hand delivered to the Cowon Systems Building in Korea? I can get a few names of people working at Cowon:

Park NamGyu sounds like our man to address (the CEO of Cowon Systems Inc.) There is also a Mr. Ki-Woong Lee (Cowon's Managing Director for Sales Marketing). Gi-Ung Lee (vice president of Sales and Marketing for Cowon.) There is also a specific dept who deal with the Mp3 Player Development.

3. Maybe we need somewhere accessible for people to sign once/after a letter/statement is drafted up; to show dedicated customers. Somewhere online?

Most excellent post and ideas. Let's make some teams to deal with these issues. I do think the petition itself can be signed as a thread in these very forum. That way there is evidence of actual commited people (registered users), and Doniago can also remove posts by possible spammers/morons.

[globiboulga]

While I fully support the idea, we should be careful not to overdo it. I think the first post sums up pretty well what a lot of people want, ie an iaudio X5 mark II, which is an improvement rather than a revolution, improvements that should be made in order to keep the player competitive in price and features with the iPod classic, like the X5 was compared to the iPod video.

As for me, the only remark I would like to make is to keep the X5 successor the way the X5 was: heavy and solid. I have the D2 and my biggest source of frustration is the plastic/light effect because it makes me feel I hold a cheap toy.

Sadly, it turns out Apple is now the benchmark again with the Classic, that should be a sure sign for Cowon that such a market exists for HDD player.

Oh, and I fully second the idea to help the rockbox community own the player, something that is now even more important given that Apple has locked its players with hard encryption. That is a massive competitive advantage for Cowon, and there's nothing that prevents the company to specifically void the player warranty if third party firmware are used (which is what I would do if I was Cowon).

[Arachnophilia]

i want one. where do i sign?

[emperorjvl]

i want one. where do i sign?

The petition hasn't been written yet... how about helping out to get it rolling?

http://iaudiophile.net/forums/showthread.php?t=16778