View Full Version : What HAVE they done?
I was looking forward to the X5, right up untill the day I heard it doesn't support ID3 browsing!
What the hell are Cowon doing? So many people have begged for ID3 browsing, and they haven't even bothered to include it in their new player.
I might have to do something terrible and get an iPod now!
yeah, it's the only real complaint i have so far.
at first cowon said they weren't going to bother with it (korean market isn't concerned with iD3-browsing) but me & eXity may have convinved them otherwise. in any event, it will take several months before they implement it, if they do.
As i said in an other post, the folder system is much better than ID3 browsing for classical music. Current ID3 browsing is implemented to support a limited number of tags : genre/artist/album and that's it. For classical music, i need : composer, artist, instrument, orchestra etc ... all this is very well handled by folder browsing. So I'll bye an X5 ;)
I see what you mean, but I'd still prefer ID3 browsing any day. If my M3 supported it - it really would be the best mp3 player in the world.
It would be great if you would have a choice between id3 and database browsing. (Some menupoint where you can choose what you want and can change it anytime you want).
Personally i prefer the database browsing because i have arranged my a music long time ago on my harddisk in a specific order. Now i'm able to reach any song i want within 5 seconds. Thats why i think it's really comfortable. Otherwise many people really want the id3 browsing, Especially in Europe and in the US. By giving the user the choice of how they want to use their player they could reach the ultimate compromise.
Whats more important (for iaudio *g*) they could improve their sales on the really important markets of europe and the US because id3 browsing is what the majority wants (look on head-fi and at any other place, everywhere i see complaints like: "oh it doesn't suüpports id3 browsing. Thats nothing for me..." ).
Maybe they can include it in a later firmwareupdate - who knows.
P.S.: By the way: what is really annoying me is that all the stuff thar was bundled whith the m3 (case, cradle ...) is missing in the X5.
For that price (350-370 euros here) it should be defenitely included.
greetz Tolo
foreigngadgetlove
04-24-2005, 09:56
Actually, this bothered me at first too, but now I like the idea of a drag-and-drop-style player that gives you total control over organizing it. I certainly won't be bothered by the lack of "fancy" browsing. ;)
jwalkabout
04-24-2005, 10:10
ID# drag and drop- I adapt, no biggie. Hopefully Cowon will include it in future firmware updates. Maybe it will happen as they increase sales in the USA.
tolo, id3 is database browsing, browsing by folder is folder browsing. Just FYI s'all.
bradavon
04-24-2005, 17:18
The M3 didn't have it either so it's hardly like they dropped it.
korinengell
04-25-2005, 05:25
at first cowon said they weren't going to bother with it (korean market isn't concerned with iD3-browsing) but me & eXity may have convinved them otherwise. in any event, it will take several months before they implement it, if they do.
Good work austinv (and eXity)! I think that will put the X5 back on the list of desirable players for many people. With an ID3 tag database there really isn't anything any other player on the market will have over the X5. I wonder how they would integrate it into the user interface though? I'm not really aware of any other players that can do this (but then again I've only really ever seen ipods and I have to say the scroll wheel is very kewl but I hate DRM and especially manufacturer-proprietary-not-even-a-standard-coz-they-can't-get-their-sh*t-together-DRM ... but don't get me started). That seemed to be the biggest complaint about the M3 that navigation through the UI was not intuitive...but then again the X5 has a differen't set of controls that the remote which the M3 used... Hmmm... curious. I'll be interested to see how that pans out.
It seems as though there is quite a clear split between people who really want it and people who really just don't care. I understand what Sphax way saying about classical music and that the ID3 would need more details to make ID3 tag browsing useful. But I personally think it would be a great addition to the player, especially in the conjunction with file/folder browing. I've been slowly categorising all the music on my computer into folders, as well as making sure all the ID3 tags are updated, but I still use mostly ID3 to sort out what music I want...especially by artist. I would certainly appreciate the ability to do both.
Just to mention, Archos (at least on the AV4xx) does both folder and id3 navigation, and rebuilds the id3 database on the unit every time USB is disconnected (it's a UMS device). The thing is both huge, and expensive, though, and doesn't have a remote (I believe you can buy a non-LCD remote seperately, though). This would be the right way for Cowon to do it. I personally prefer folder navigation, but it is definitely possible to build an id3 database on a UMS device. You just have to wait a couple of minutes after disconnect while it does it.
zaphanathpaneah
04-25-2005, 16:43
wait one freaking min. ID3 tags are the artist, title, genre, album info that is encapsulated in every mp3 right? So what we are saying is that you wont be able to sort my artist or genre...right? What the Hell is Cowen thinking? Then they should just the damn thing in Korea then if they are not designing it for EU and US markets? well.....are thy planning a fix with a firmware upgrade? No...I am not asking we think they should or might later on in our short lives. I am asking if anyone heard from Cowen directly and they said """we are working on a firmware upgrade""" because this would be the ONLY thing worth buying the x5 now and looking forward to. If not....then.....does it support playlist? that would be the 2nd best thing.
korinengell
04-25-2005, 19:58
wait one freaking min. ID3 tags are the artist, title, genre, album info that is encapsulated in every mp3 right? So what we are saying is that you wont be able to sort my artist or genre...right? What the Hell is Cowen thinking? Then they should just the damn thing in Korea then if they are not designing it for EU and US markets? well.....are thy planning a fix with a firmware upgrade? No...I am not asking we think they should or might later on in our short lives. I am asking if anyone heard from Cowen directly and they said """we are working on a firmware upgrade""" because this would be the ONLY thing worth buying the x5 now and looking forward to. If not....then.....does it support playlist? that would be the 2nd best thing.
zaphanathpaneah, I am really damn tired this morning after a huge weekend but I am pretty sure most of this didn't make sense...
I think what you're trying to ask is: is the talk of support for ID3 tag databasing in later firmware upgrades a marketing ploy by Cowon to buy the X5 now and possibly never deliver it?
Fair enough question. I'll hand that over to austinv/eXigy to answer... how reliable is your source guys?
Cowon hasn't been interested in ID3 databases because there isn't a market for it in korea. But Cowon is definately above average in delivering firmware. Also, they haven't actually advertised it as an upcomming feature so how can they be lieing if they have made no official claims yet?
The impression I have is that Austin and Exity have personally convinced them to add it so they are their source. But like I said, the only people who have said that Cowon will work on it is Austin, so it isn't a marketing ploy.
The X5 has playlists. You can always sort your folders into artist genre if you want.
mintcheerios
04-26-2005, 02:10
True gapless for all codecs is the most important thing to me right now for the X5. Then it's database browsing. Otherwise it's the perfect player for me.
zaphanathpaneah
04-26-2005, 08:41
korinengell...hope you will get a little more rest today. I hope Exity will comment on this. If Cowen was only marketing this for Korea....then ID3 tags would be mute. But Aisa, Europe and America would be their biggest customer. Would it not make sense to taylor it for those markets? It's like making a player for US markets and only shipping it with Koren language menus. How F$#&(* up would that be? Well that's my point. It's too bad though....it would have made the perfect player. Also bacause many stores in USA won't carry it we would never get hands on untill we buy it. I checked with a fe major stores and they said they won't carry it becasue Cowen do not deal with most retail stores? I think (personally) that to see a profit they can't mark down the price, even in bulk sales to stores. So they depend on direct marketing over the net.
I believe Cowon's major market is still Korea.
Korean market is stil dominated by flash based players.. and I guess there is no reason for Id3tag browsing in small capacity flash players and it probably carried over to their HD based players.
I think they'll get id3tag browsing.. just.. not yet.. :)
bradavon
04-26-2005, 16:07
I've asked this before but no one answered:
Seeing as the X5 supports UMS couldn't you right click on say a rock song and choose copy, followed by creating a rock folder and right click followed by paste shortcut? It would take a bit of setting up but would save having to have the song twice. Would the X5 be none the wiser or complain about the shortcut .lnk file?
Unfortunately, windows shortcuts are not part of the filesystem and aren't understood by other OSes/devices. On the other hand, anyone know if it is possible to have multiple hardlinks to a file on a fat filesystem?
bradavon
04-26-2005, 17:00
Thanks.
Hard links???
Something a Unix user would probably recognise, but which I've never seen in an MS OS. So I'm not sure if fat suports them. Basically, a file consists of the data somewhere on disk and a pointer to that data that is in a directory file. A hardlink is a second pointer to the same data from a different directory file, while a symbolic link is a pointer to the entry in the first directory file. A shortcut is basically a symbolic link, but done in a way that only windows understands.
bradavon
04-26-2005, 17:15
Thanks.
Doesn't Unix also use FAT? So it's "kind" of like a shortcut. Why have both a symbolic and hard link?
I would imagine Windows uses something like hard links internally.
hard links are problematic, as you can delete the file using one of the links, while the other links still point to the noe unallocated area. Whereas with a symlink, you can tell that the link is broken if the file is deleted. I don't think hrdlinks are actually used much anymore. As for Unix and fat, many Unices can write to fat, but none use it natively, they have their own file systems that support various things that they need that fat doesn't support.
lasers60
04-26-2005, 21:14
So wait, I won't be able to organize my songs by artist, genre or anything? It'll just organize it by the file name?
It will order it be file tree, so however your folders are set up, that's how it will be on the X5.
Aachenmade
04-27-2005, 04:25
You could use playlists with a single file to organize your music in different shapes:
Lets say your normal folder organization is artist-album the you can make subfolders with e.g genre-artist and put those playlists in the corresponding subfolders.
That brings up three questions:
1. Can a playlist be viewed while playing another playlist/song?
2. Can a song be copied from a playlist to the OTG-playlist?
3. Can a coplete playlist be appended to the OTG-playlist?
Maybe someone with a unit already in hand could try these three things for me...
1. Yes
2. Depends on how you mean it, but probably yes.
3. Not that I am aware.
bradavon
04-27-2005, 06:34
Lets say your normal folder organization is artist-album the you can make subfolders with e.g genre-artist and put those playlists in the corresponding subfolders.
Exactly. It wouldn't take to much work. 30-60 mins of copy/pasting.
It will order it be file tree, so however your folders are set up, that's how it will be on the X5.
Surely it also has a filter to change the order? By date, name etc . . .
Aachenmade
04-27-2005, 14:38
2. Depends on how you mean it, but probably yes.
What I mean is the following (I'll try to explain it in english as best as I can ;) ):
You hear songs from the OTG-Playlist. Then you surf into another playlist of e.g. an album. From this playlist you append a song to the OTG-Playlist.
Is this possible?
Edit: One other thing. Is it now possible to create subfolders in the PLAYLIST folder? And is it possible to use e.g. Winamp playlists or must I use JetAudio to make playlists?
bradavon
04-27-2005, 15:19
Good point does it support Winamps M3U format? I hope so as that's what I use.
The iRiver does or rather did.
Aachenmade
04-27-2005, 16:05
Lets say your normal folder organization is artist-album the you can make subfolders with e.g genre-artist and put those playlists in the corresponding subfolders.
Exactly. It wouldn't take to much work. 30-60 mins of copy/pasting.
I don't think it would be that much time. If you have your MP3s organized already in a media library program, this program should be able to make .m3u files.
Maby I can answer my own question... the M3 did support .m3u so I think the X5 does also...
Um I think you can use those playlists for your "hardlinks"! So you can put an album in a playlist and you can do a second playlist "favourites" where u put two songs of the album in it. Easy as it is!
bradavon
04-27-2005, 16:35
Sorry Maxo you've lost me?
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