View Full Version : Random A3 Ravings, Discussions and Stuff
Dead1nside
07-15-2007, 15:28
It's going to have to be very feature rich or that price has got to be very competitive, with such a late release. If nothing's changed from the specs already released then it's purely not competitive.
Mr. Black
07-15-2007, 15:41
I think it's very competitive, given its feature set, but it depends on what you are looking for in a pmp.
Why are you saying the A3 isn't competetive? It still has industry leading battery life, format support and with better output and recording options and an updated TI DaVinci Chip I think it should pretty much kick ass. As far as I know they are also upgrading the screen inside the unit, which has higher contrast and also brighter.
Viper2005
07-15-2007, 16:26
But only with a relatively puny 60gb of storage, whereas the competition has up to 160gb. Heck, even the iP*d has 80gb!
ya, but it hasnt been confirmed that 60GB will be their top model and even still it does have a lot of other things going for it. most people do look at things besides the number of GB it has otherwise the nano (and all other flash players) would have failed VERY hard.
omjeremy
07-16-2007, 01:57
Give me a device that has plenty of space and plays everything, has at least 10 hours of battery life for videos, is lightweight, portable, and durable and has awesome styling and an intuitive and easy to control interface. Oh yeah, and make it under 400 bucks. That's all...
You guys have gone off topic again, i feel a closure coming on
This is a seperate topic now - so we can do all the raving we want as long as we are nice to each other. [blush]
Give me a device that has plenty of space and plays everything, has at least 10 hours of battery life for videos, is lightweight, portable, and durable and has awesome styling and an intuitive and easy to control interface. Oh yeah, and make it under 400 bucks. That's all...
You are talking about the A3 - right? [wink]
Dead1nside
07-16-2007, 02:11
Lets put the ranting here and out of the release date speculation thread.
I say it will have to be something more than just what was presented in the spec sheets awhile ago if it's being released as late as Aug/Sept and that's not even in Europe probably, because every company seems to be coming out with a DaVinci chipped PMP now. This A2 refresh with just a more powerful processor, that doesn't cut it. That's not innovation.
In my opinion it's probably going to have to be very competitive on both feature set and price. In the UK the top model should be no more than £350-399 really. People won't pay that price in great numbers in such a saturated market.
Ok, so they have better playback options and recording. Didn't they already have pretty damn good playback options and recording? That's resting on your laurels if you're just going to say, "Oh well with more CPU power we can do this too." Yeh great, but show me some innovation, give me a reason to buy this other than an A2.
Battery life for a device like this is very important to me. I know from my iRiver H340 that if it wasn't for the detailed guides and the relative ease of getting a new battery, it'd be worth nothing to me. So either have replaceable batteries. Or at least make it easier for people to substitute these dead batteries. As predominantly a video device you've got to expect a good amount of watching, 10hours or so. This will quickly fall if you're deep discharging a li-ion battery, so it's even more pivotal.
I've heard about the A2 joystick malfunctioning and once it does there's nothing you can do about it. I want those kind of design flaws fixed in this.
So if it's just an A2+, it's just not going to cut it in my book. The X7 should have better video support and a larger screen in my opinion, and if that comes out right and the A3 doesn't. I know which one I'll be going for, even if it isn't a pure PMP.
Cheers.
omjeremy
07-16-2007, 02:27
You are talking about the A3 - right? [wink] I don't know. But if someone makes a device like I described, I'll buy it! [yes]
Oh yeah, and it would need to have a great screen that is big enough, be able to view PDFs, other documents and pictures (with a slideshow capability and nice transitions), have video out built-in, and a radio.
Actually the A2 competes well with new generation Archos devices still. So.. an A2+ actually just keeps the Cowon device up to par with the Archos devices. Certainly room in the market for an A2+. As for leap frogging the Archos line... seems that Cowon views their D2 and Q5 as the line to leap frog them.
I really don't see Cowon competing well in the Linux PMP market. I don't think they really want to be there. If Archos can increase their battery life (even a smidge) and add some extra sound manglers... I think they can take down the A2 and any follow on product from Cowon.
As for the A3... my single rant... IT DOESN'T EXIST! There.. nuff said.
If Linux doesn't matter (which is the vast majority of Cowon users), then look at the D2 and the Q5.
Rockin_amigo14
07-16-2007, 11:44
you're right that they are keeping the device on par, but with what we've seen from Cowon in the past, I'd rather see something that sets the bar, rather than just meeting it.
can I just make 1 thing clear when it comes to battery life...... NO PMP EXCEPT THE A2 HAS EVER HAD BATTERY LIFE (FOR VIDEO) ANYWHERE NEAR 10HRS. All this crap about baterry life is plain stupid. The only reason people are asking for 10hrs is because cowon set the standard so high to start with. 8 hrs is more than enough what are you intending to watch for 10HRS in a row!! Archos batteries last no where near 10hours.
GSV3MiaC
07-16-2007, 14:51
Ah, but many (most?) Archos batteries can be user swapped, even in the middle of a plane ride. I agree, nobody watches video for 10 hours straight, but they might watch for 10 hours before getting near a power outlet again.
omjeremy
07-16-2007, 15:34
Sure the batteries can be swapped, but they also aren't cheap. My mother just got a 504 with a travel dvr base from woot (only 199!) and almost nothing is included. I've already had to purchase a charger and a plug-in to enable ac3 audio and mpg playback. I really don't like the way they nickel and dime their customers. Besides that, I really like the 504. The screen has better color accuracy than the A2, the picture functions are a whole lot better, and it can view PDFs. It's not all good though, as the built-in speaker is total crap, there isn't an alarm clock, the battery sucks in comparison to the A2 and the video playback options are minimal (no 4:3, 16:9 forced aspect ratios and only 3 levels of brightness).
Re: 10 hours, you're right GSV3MiaC. I figure 10 hours is long enough for a device where you don't notice that you need to charge it often. With SSDs coming to the forefront, we will begin to see devices with better battery life than we ever imagined. So, I don't think desiring a device with at least 10 hours for video is too much to ask for. I predict that in about two years we will have a device like I mentioned above readily available.
All this crap about baterry life is plain stupid.
While I appreciate your lack of need for battery life... one must feel that the reason why people are wanting more than 8 hrs is because they DO have a need for that much.
I think your making a WRONG assumption in that the 8 hrs of video watching is all contiguous. Imagine an expedition or something where you are without power for several days. Just an example. Likewise, a busy traveler may not have the plethora of adapters needed to plug into the car, the bus, the train, the plane...
You can see my Archos x04 vs. A2 brief notes here:
http://forum.archosfans.com/viewtopic.php?t=5398&highlight=
eoniverse
07-19-2007, 10:17
can I just make 1 thing clear when it comes to battery life...... NO PMP EXCEPT THE A2 HAS EVER HAD BATTERY LIFE (FOR VIDEO) ANYWHERE NEAR 10HRS ... Archos batteries last no where near 10hours.
1. Look at one of the first PMP's: Creative Zen PMC. My old battery still get's well over 7 continuous hours per replaceable battery.
2. After market Archos 504 extended battery = 9+ hours continuous video. Granted it means spending an add'l $40.00 - but it works very well... and it's replaceable.
Mr. Black
07-19-2007, 10:57
1. That's true, pity the PMC was a buggy, steaming pile of dog doo.
2. that hardly qualifies the archos as having battery life near ten hours, heck its pretty easy to make an extendable battery for most portable devices if that's what you need.
eoniverse
07-19-2007, 14:41
Aside from it being the size of a small brick my Creative Zen PMC is still going strong. I've not had one 'buggy' issue making it work. I last used it two months ago and it still holds a good charge - but my Archos 504 has replaced it. And for when it was made I think the screen quality looked better than the old Archos av340 I owned. It just doesn't have a wide viewing angle.
I did not mean battery pack in the sense you were referring. As soon as I read your reply I realized what type of product you are talking about. No. This extended battery replaces the one that comes with the Archos. It is not an add'l pack add-on to haul around. That would certainly defeat the convenience of the unit. It is a bit thicker but it still easily fits in my leather case. Make sense?
http://www.newmp3technology.com/mb504fat.htm
While Archos does nickle and dime you for everything and while their quality control sucks... at least they come to market when they say they will. It took me three tries to get a decent working unit from them - and that is a hassle. But now that I have an 80GB 504 that works I'm glad I'm not still waiting on vaporware (since Feb - right?). I have functioning music playlists, album art and ID3 tags and I'm carrying around 40GB of media. Lots of music, tons of video (15 movies and seasons of Stargate sg-1, Dr. Who, and Heroes) 40 years of Action Comics and all the Harry Potter books in pdf. And It's nice to know I still have another 40Gb to use, I can easily replace the battery, and I have recently read it is currently possible to replace the 80GB HDD in the 504 up to a 160GB dispite the Archos firmware restriction.
I would have waited and bought an A3 if I had any faith in the 60Gb getting to Market by September. Cowon quality has been better. But I have no faith that Cowon will release any A3 model before December... let alone the 60GB version
I totally agree. [surrend]
I will probably go and get the Archos 606, 80GB model when it comes available. Its in the market, it may not be the BEST but hey, it will do.
cowon = [thumbdwn]
archos = [yes]
keep rockin' :jamming:
b.
As an archos owner too I back up what eoniverse says above. My 504 was great I was one of the lucky ones.
The problem with archos is you have a one in three chance of getting a working unit and if you get a lemon they leave you stranded. I wouldnt recommend them to anyone.
eoniverse
07-19-2007, 15:41
Mikey:
Do you really think it's as high as 1 in 3? I was thinking it was more like 1 in 8 myself. I would think 1 in 3 would trigger a class action pretty easily.
That said... Cowon needs to get their arse in gear and release 'something' or they will continue to lose market share.
Mikey:
Do you really think it's as high as 1 in 3? I was thinking it was more like 1 in 8 myself. I would think 1 in 3 would trigger a class action pretty easily.
That said... Cowon needs to get their arse in gear and release 'something' or they will continue to lose market share.
It seems that way for people posting on forums, maybe it could be one in 5 or one in 8, but that is still bad and such an inconvenience. How many tries did it take you before you were happy?
People that dont live in America and dont have the luxury of popping back to where they bought it to replace it really struggle.
Also I didnt add whilst its good to produce new models every year it makes you loose alot of money when you want to upgrade.
And Archos leave their previous models dead in the water once the new range is announced (firmware etc)
Cowon are different, the a2 is getting at least 80% of prices paid years ago, that has to say "lets remain patient" for Cowon
i dont understand why people would buy an A3 when they can buy a Q5 for a little more, a better more powerfull device with many more new features. It just woudnt stick in my head.
eoniverse
07-20-2007, 07:41
Three tries (fingers crossed ).Archos and the firmware/lack of support issue = dead on. It's a huge gamble when buying from them. Since the unit does all I want I don't care if another firmware update comes along for the 504 series. It is only if a purchaser has the convenience to exchange or return an Archos that would I recommend their product line since the quality control gamble is lessened. I am very happy with my '3rd attempt' 504. Would I buy another Archos? I would certainly consider it - but it is not a 'slam dunk' decision. I most definately would have bought a 60GB A3 (or an A2 if there was a proven HDD mod) without hesitation had the product been released.
But I am not going to run out and buy an A3 if it is released now. My old Creative Zen PMC (still working well) was my friend for 2 and a half years. I suspect - short of issues - the Archos will last at least as long (again... fingers crossed). So I won't be looking at Cowon until the A4 [rolleyes]. I wonder if that model will get released on time[no] ?
Cowon is hurting themselves by waiting and I am beginning to suspect they may have financial issues since we are not talking about a quantum leap in technology vs. the A2. I cannot believe the issue is adding ID3 support and a few new codecs... there has to be more to it. Why else is it taking this long to bring a product to market when it was supposed to be available in Feb.?
As to the Q5 question, I can only speak for myself: For the forseeable future (say the next 3 years) I don't want to pay for features I will never use. I don't care about touch screen or wifi. I don't care about outputting to TV in high def - near DVD quality is fine. I don't need a GPS. So.... if I could have saved a $100.00 buying the 60Gb A3 vs a Q5 - why would I want to throw my money away? Just because I can afford to buy something doesn't mean it makes fiscal sense. Like if I can afford to buy a Corolla and or a Camry. And the Corolla meets all my needs and comforts. I don't care about extra comfort, bigger engine, quieter ride, etc. Why do I want to spend more on the Camry? Why wouldn't I decide to keep my money for something that I would value?
Now when and if I should ever decide to use some of those features I don't need now I'll most likely review what I want in 3 - 4 years for my next PMP. However I have no doubt by then micro PC's that now sell for $900.00 and up will be $400.00 and up. A micro PC can do a whole lot more useful things than a Q5 (or A3 or 504) could ever do for me. (Think Excel, etc...) The thought of a micro PC with an 8 inch screen a 100Gb+ HDD, 6 hours of battery life for $400.00 would be hard for me to resist. I'm certain that day will come - but it's not here now.
Yes. I did spend as much... or close to what a Q5 will cost. I also had a need for something now. I started coming here in March. Heard about a Feb release and decided to be patient. (After all - how much longer could it take?) Cowon - as is their right - decides to tell people nothing substantial about delayed release date so I have nothing to base waiting on except a reputation for high quality. April = no real release news. May = still nothing new. No meaningful word from Cowon. (I don't count posts that say... "I talked to tech and they said..." That mean's just about nothing... as has been proven with time.) June. Archos prices drop somewhat. Q5 release date is mentioned - but that does not mean North American release nor is it referring to the higher capacity units that I need. All sizes of A3 still = vaporware. Why not try something else? First couple of 504's = bad hardware. Returned and I'm about to give up. Still no worthwhile news from Cowon Corporate about real reliable release dates. But the truth for me is since they already claimed Feb... why should i believe September or whatever they say... unless I hear a reasonable explanation 'why'? Finally a 'deal' from Archos. Travel Dock, codecs, 80GB unit, free shipping = 356.00. Works for me. Sold. So far the unit has worked great. (fingers still crossed.)
Well thats a nice rave eoniverse!
I agree with everthing you said, Cowon are shooting themselves in the foot!
Maybe the reason why will be a big surprise to us all with what they eventually release. (if anything is released)
8 hrs is more than enough what are you intending to watch for 10HRS in a row!!
Thank you for trying to define MY needs, but I assure you that battery life is one of the most important factors for my PMP, and I love my A2 for that reason.
I fly very often, and often very long hours. I have 46 hours of flight time scheduled for the next 3 weeks, and that does not include travelling time (sitting around at the airport where you may or may not be able to recharge your PMP). For every 3 hours in a plane, I count 1 hour sitting around.... And that's because I do long hauls, otherwise it can be the other way around on short hauls.
So if YOU don't need 10 hours video, good for you. I do, and I will prefer an A3 with great battery life over a Q5 being all clever, wifi and all with lesser battery life.
I HAD an Archos with 3 batteries just to do what my A2 can do on 1 charge... Having 3 batteries ona trip is an ABSOLUTE PAIN because when you eventually get to a plug, you can only recharge one at a time, and because you have to carefully monitor which is which. Also, I travel with carry on only and the less I carry the better the trip is.
8 hours is a SHORT flight. My longest flight was 19 hours. My longest trip was 22 hours flight time (an eternity trip time). The most flights in a period was 33 flights in 10 days....
Likewise, a busy traveler may not have the plethora of adapters needed to plug into the car, the bus, the train, the plane...
Exactly.
I do, but still, finding juice and time to recharge is a luxury you don't always have during a busy trip.
Eric
As to the Q5 question, I can only speak for myself: For the forseeable future (say the next 3 years) I don't want to pay for features I will never use. I don't care about touch screen or wifi. I don't care about outputting to TV in high def - near DVD quality is fine. I don't need a GPS. So.... if I could have saved a $100.00 buying the 60Gb A3 vs a Q5 - why would I want to throw my money away?
Agreed here too.
I just want to view my videos on the plane. No need for Wifi, touchscreen (I don't like them anyway since you end up messing the screen up and lack tactile feedback to operate without looking at the screen and/or singlehanded like in a car), no need for HD on my TV. Heck , I don't even have an HDTV and couldn't care less about getting one either until the technology hasn't stabilized.
I don't need a GPS, already have one. DOn't need integrated PDA, my Blackberry is 100 times better at it and more useful than the Q5 can ever be. Don't need to read email on my PMP, that's what my Blackberry does too.
I hate Archos' guts for crappy machines (I had one), and for piecemealing all the options but have to admit that as of today I understand why someone would go for them rather than COWON.
Eric
zaphanathpaneah
07-30-2007, 13:49
Mikey:
Do you really think it's as high as 1 in 3? I was thinking it was more like 1 in 8 myself. I would think 1 in 3 would trigger a class action pretty easily.
That said... Cowon needs to get their arse in gear and release 'something' or they will continue to lose market share.
What market share? Cowon is so far behind that it take them years just to get to 1% market share. THey have the best damn player but can't keep customers...WHY?
GSV3MiaC
07-30-2007, 15:33
Poor marketing, poor support, poor (initial) firmware, and stupidity in production planning/execution (try buying an X5 remote - or even an X5 for that matter). Oh, and not listening to (or responding to) customers.
Or did you want a full list??
Poor marketing,
How about NO marketing? At least here in the Americas (North and South) Cowon does no advertising at all, anywhere. They do have something of a small underground following but their market share is completely dependent upon word of mouth. I don't know if it is different in Europe but suspect Cowon does little or no marketing outside of Korea. Even in Korea Cowon's sales lag behind iriver, a company which does do at least some marketing outside Korea.
Customer support is poor but probably not worse than most for the same category of products. Initial release firmware does tend to be buggy but that's not entirely uncommon either. However Cowon can be slow with updates and later releases also tend to be buggy and they don't have the easiest firmware upgrade process. Some may argue that last point but remember -- when talking about improved total sales numbers and repeat customers -- it's all about the average user, not techie types who think a fun weekend is tweaking their computers. Cowon is different from other companies with their habit of releasing beta versions of firmware, a practice which is also not very average-user-friendly. As it exists currently, Cowon is more geared toward niche markets.
Distribution is also poor. I have yet to see any any one online retailer who carries the full Cowon line. Brand recognition is also problematic, Cowon's players are sold under Cowon, iAudio and JetAudio, and there are those who think these are three separate brands.
zaphanathpaneah
08-01-2007, 17:21
Agreed!! I hope they can work it out though
omjeremy
08-01-2007, 17:36
Does Archos even advertise in the US? I've never seen an ad of theirs.
Rockin_amigo14
08-01-2007, 23:49
they have some posters up in Sam's Club around their products...
Archos "advertises" by making their product available in major retail outlets (e.g. Circuit City, CompUSA, even Sam's Club).
In fact, Sam's keeps having a special where you can get the 604 WiFi version for less than $200 (a steal). Obviously, Archos is prepping the x05 line and cleaning out the old...
zaphanathpaneah
08-02-2007, 14:34
You know why they do that? Yeah ....$$$$ but they know what customer wants and they fill the need. Does Cowon know what we even want in the player?
Cowon's prime competition is in Korea... so they are strictly looking at that market and players there. People in the U.S.A. (where I live) will buy anything... no need to find "what the customer wants" :)
Since Archos is a Chinese produced player via a French company, things are done a bit differently.
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