X5 Canon compatiblity

[strider]

Someone mentioned on another forum that the X5 will not be compatible with Canons.

Is this true? That's really disappointing, because that's one of the main reasons I've been waiting for an X5...

[the_phantastic]

The iAUDIO X5 supports a feature called USB OTG (Universal Serial Bus On The Go). Basically this feature lets you connect many electronics devices such as Digital Cameras to your X5.

Here is a list of compatible devices. I strongly encourage all X5 users to post in this list and report on the compatibility of their Electronical Devices.

Every Model/Device will be confirmed seperatly. The list of names here at the moment are just place-holders!

Cameras:

* Agfa

* Canon

* Casio

* Contax

* Epson

* Fujifilm

* HP

* JVC

* Kodak

* Konica Minolta

* Leica

* Nikon

* Olympus

* Panasonic

* Pentax

* Samsung

* Sanyo

* Sigma

* Sony

* Toshiba

-_-

[korinengell]

Someone mentioned on another forum that the X5 will not be compatible with Canons.

Is this true? That's really disappointing, because that's one of the main reasons I've been waiting for an X5...


I don't think so...Jever98 said that it probably will not work with the IXUS 500. I expect it should work with the IXUS 400 though because I have drag and drop capability without the need for any extra sortware drivers or Canon applications through Windows XP.

I'm not sure about the rest of the Canon cameras. I know in the IXUS 430 they did add an extra 1 button to print directly to a portable printer... I don't know whether or not this did something to screw up their USB drivers on the camera so that it was not strictly drag and drop compatible any more. If it was, I suspect this is the thing that they carried over into the IXUS 500 model which is why Jever98 thinks it won't work. Perhaps this is something that can be tested in the review is such a camera is available.

[Martinp]

I'll be getting my X5 soon and also a Canon Powershot A95 - I will keep you updated :-D

[IG88]

I'll be getting my X5 soon and also a Canon Powershot A95 - I will keep you updated :-D

Where are u getting yours from ?

Are you guys getting freebie samples from iAudio??

[strider]

hmm. thanks - that's a relief;>

i have a powershot s400... waiting impatiently for the x5 60.

[Piggen]

I don't think it will work. The iRiver H300 also can't, because (most?) Canon camera's need drivers. But I don't know if the people at Cowon found a solution for that.

If it won't work, the only solution is a cardreader.

[DirtHerder]

Yeah... though you can't really blame Cowon for that. That's more of an issue with Canon's. S'why I buy Sony cameras (most don't require any funky software and also have the ability to switch USB modes in their setup menu)..

Someone mentioned on another forum that the X5 will not be compatible with Canons.

Is this true? That's really disappointing, because that's one of the main reasons I've been waiting for an X5...

[korinengell]

I would be extremely surprised if the X5 works with Sony cameras and not Canon given Sony's blatant efforts to ensure that Sony products are only compatible with other Sony products. e.g. Sony memory stick, and all their crap "mp3" players that don't even play mp3s!

[DirtHerder]

I guess we'll just have to wait and see. All I know is that I can plug my Sony camera into stuff and have it work. No software, no fuss, no muss. Canon's on the other hand are amixed bag. Some that I have used have been similar in their non fussiness. Some others (like my parent's)... ugh, pain in the buttocks.

As for Sony products only being compatible with Sony products... I think that is equal measure truth and misperception. Sony, though not the most open, is not exactly the evil closed off empire either.

I've never understood the objection that some people have to Memory Sticks. They are a great format that is very dependable and works very well. True... it's not a standard... but quite frankly there is NO STANDARD when it comes to flash memory (why do you think companies make 12 in 1 card readers???). At the very least Sony is consistent with it's memory formats within it's own line of products (the same cannot be said for companies like Canon which uses one memory format or another based on product..s and even within the same product type). Do I wish there was jus one standard memory format? Well sure... that would be convenient. But the lack of that is not Sony's doing (again I direct you to the long list of memory formats... it isn't exactly Sony versus a unified front).

As for the Mp3 thing. Couldn't agree with you more. Thankfully it looks like Sony is finally beginning o see the error of it's ways. Maybe in a generation or two we'll see mp3 players worth a damn (format support wise). Sure i would be great to have Sony be a one stop shop for all my tech-gadget needs (as it is, it's pretty damned close to it), but in the meantime, Cowon may be a great alternative.

I would be extremely surprised if the X5 works with Sony cameras and not Canon given Sony's blatant efforts to ensure that Sony products are only compatible with other Sony products. e.g. Sony memory stick, and all their crap "mp3" players that don't even play mp3s!

[mintcheerios]

Sony deserved every lost sale for not including Mp3 support in their daps. Their complacency led them to believe atrac had a chance. They don't have the brand loyalty power they used to, and they are losing to Canon on digital cameras, Samsung on TVs, Nokia on Cell phones, and Apple on portable audio. They make pretty damn cool game systems though. Times are changing.

[CleanPauper]

I'll give you guys a compatability report between the X5 and my Canon G6 as soon as I get my hands on the iAudio.

[DirtHerder]

It's not so much complacency as it is arrogance (anyone ever see the PS2 "Year of dominance" billboards they had up at the Metreon?).

Anyway. Sony haters are gonna hate them no matter what so there's really no point discussing it here.

Sony deserved every lost sale for not including Mp3 support in their daps. Their complacency led them to believe atrac had a chance. They don't have the brand loyalty power they used to, and they are losing to Canon on digital cameras, Samsung on TVs, Nokia on Cell phones, and Apple on portable audio. They make pretty damn cool game systems though. Times are changing.

[korinengell]

I found some interesting USB OTG facts: see this article:

http://pd.pennnet.com/Articles/Article_Display.cfm?Section=Articles&Subsection=Display&ARTICLE_ID=218924

Here is an excerpt:

" Digital cameras were the first products to adopt the standard mini-B receptacle. This platform doesn’t need USB OTG because a consortium of camera makers (Canon, Epson, Hewlett-Packard, Olympus, FujiFilm, and Sony) developed the PictBridge standard to keep the USB logic simple, relying instead on USB host functionality in the printer. Canon, Epson, and HP offer printers with a host port on the front of the printer. That means PictBridge-enabled cameras from HP should interoperate with PictBridge-enabled printers from Canon or Epson. In addition, this works without requiring that the exact driver for that printer be loaded on the camera. By standardizing in this way, the manufacturers have developed and deployed just one PictBridge driver because the camera doesn’t drive the USB traffic, the printer does.

A USB host in the printer would treat a camera as a peripheral. After a discovery phase in which the devices see that they are both PictBridge devices, the USB products switch to PictBridge mode and use the Picture Transfer Protocol. A combination of this protocol and some additional software lets users select and indicate which pictures to print directly from the camera. Again, that keeps the camera hardware simple because only additional software on the camera is needed to enable printing. New OTG silicon or host drivers aren’t required. "

Initially I thought this might mean the the PictBridge interface might possibly interfere with USB OTG host-peripheral negotiations... which meant Cameras like the Canon IXUS 430 would be screwed (I know this is the only difference between the IXUS 400 and the 430). However I have since seen several USB OTG devices listing compatibility with many different Canon cameras such as IXUS 400, 430 and 500. Canons certainly did seem to make up the majority (at least a significant portion) of USB OTG compatible cameras.

From what I have read so far it does seem to be very much a matter up to the programmers ability of the USB OTG device to ensure the compatibility with other devices. So even if the X5 isn't compatible with your camera to start off with, I expect that later firmware updates will increase the list of devices that it is compabtible with.

There maybe hope for us all yet :)

[Erasure4ever]

I've never understood the objection that some people have to Memory Sticks. They are a great format that is very dependable and works very well. True... it's not a standard... but quite frankly there is NO STANDARD when it comes to flash memory (why do you think companies make 12 in 1 card readers???). At the very least Sony is consistent with it's memory formats within it's own line of products (the same cannot be said for companies like Canon which uses one memory format or another based on product..s and even within the same product type). Do I wish there was jus one standard memory format? Well sure... that would be convenient. But the lack of that is not Sony's doing (again I direct you to the long list of memory formats... it isn't exactly Sony versus a unified front).

Problem with MS is 99% of products that support them are SONY branded and MS are more expensive than SD or CF. At least with SD and CF, there are a bunch of manufacturers that support it. Also you can get a CF shell that accepts SD cards so you can use your SD cards in devices that only support CF. With respect to DSCs, I'd take a Canon over a SONY any day of the week. Canon simply makes better cameras, just look at the thousands of reviews out there.

[DirtHerder]

MS is really not that much more expensive than SD (and has better performance). It's true that there aren't that many manufacturers that support MS (besides things like printers), but CF "shells" are just as readily available for MS as they are for SD.

As for making better camera's... that's simply not true. When looking for camera's for myself or other's I did in fact look at every single review out there at the time. Granted not all Sony camera's are great at everything (the same can be said fo the other manufacturers as well... including Canon), but Sony camera's have earned their fair share of exceptional reviews, and won their fair share of industry awards as well (such as EISA). In fact a great percentage of digital camera's use Sony guts (CCD's) in them.



Problem with MS is 99% of products that support them are SONY branded and MS are more expensive than SD or CF. At least with SD and CF, there are a bunch of manufacturers that support it. Also you can get a CF shell that accepts SD cards so you can use your SD cards in devices that only support CF. With respect to DSCs, I'd take a Canon over a SONY any day of the week. Canon simply makes better cameras, just look at the thousands of reviews out there.

[Erasure4ever]

A CCD alone doesn't make the camera. It's the electronics that process the image and optics that make the camera. Professional photographers use Canon, Minolta, and Nikon for a reason. BTW the shells for MS don't work for CF cameras because MS is long. MS is not higher performance btw. Both CF and SD have highspeed versions too. SONY makes nice T series cameras, but even that series has poor image quality. They're popular because they're small, but even Canon, Fuji, Pentax, Casio, Minolta/Konica have these small compact cameras. SONY is overrated and it's about time people find better alternatives. I'm glad I have an iAudio instead of some crappy SONY ATRAC player.

[DirtHerder]

True enough, but there is something to be said for the fact that their CCD's are found in so many camera's. CCD's alone do not make a camera, but it's what defines a digital camera as such.

Canon, Minolta, and Nikon are used by pro photographers because Canon, Minolta, and Nikon have traditionally made pro SLR cameras as they now do digital versions (ie: they have the rep in the pro industry - well earned I might say... my dad's got an old work horse of a Nikon F1 - and it's an industry where this sort of long time rep fo gear means a lot). Simple enough. The most common camera for pro's are SLR's. Sony doesn't make SLR's so of course pro's won't be using them.

And yes CF and SD make higher speed versions that approach MS Pro speeds.. but at higher price points (not the price point you are comparing to when you say MS is far more expensive, let's be fair here).

As for poor image quality. Have you all really been reading all of the reviews y'all have been claiming to be reading? I mean really? Seriously? Judging by the comments I am reading. I think not. I knbow I have.

Again I will qualify this by saying not all Sony camera's are winners (or even decent) but again the same can easily be said for Canon or any of the other cam makers (Nikon, Minolta, etc) out there

Anyway if you want to have this debate, I highly suggest www.dpreview.com as we are quickly veering off topic here (and I am sure you will find quite a bit of informed opposition to the very limited scope, ill informed "sony sucks.. I'm a sony hater... period" opinion).

If you want to debate Sony mp3 players versus Cowon... fine. I'm right there with you. Sony has a lot to learn in that dept.

- J

A CCD alone doesn't make the camera. It's the electronics that process the image and optics that make the camera. Professional photographers use Canon, Minolta, and Nikon for a reason. BTW the shells for MS don't work for CF cameras because MS is long. MS is not higher performance btw. Both CF and SD have highspeed versions too. SONY makes nice T series cameras, but even that series has poor image quality. They're popular because they're small, but even Canon, Fuji, Pentax, Casio, Minolta/Konica have these small compact cameras. SONY is overrated and it's about time people find better alternatives. I'm glad I have an iAudio instead of some crappy SONY ATRAC player.

[peter]

So whats the bottom line?...will the X5 work with the Canon A80?

[korinengell]

So whats the bottom line?...will the X5 work with the Canon A80?

The bottom line is that if it doesn't work now it is fairly likely that it will work with later firmware upgrades. But since only the minority of us own X5 and Canons you will either have to make a gamble or wait until someone else posts up compatibility.

You could always be the first!

[DirtHerder]

That's kind of a pretty big assumption.

I wouldn't reccomend someone buy the X5 (or any other device) if it would take a "possible" future firmware upgrade, in order to get compatability with an item they depend on (or would really like to have compatability for).

Just remember that firmware updates are a bonus. Some companies are better than others, but the true bottom line is that no one has to make them.

Firmware upgrades are not something to be counting on.

Make your decisions based on what something's got upon release (or at the time of your purchase)... not what it might have some time in the future.

So whats the bottom line?...will the X5 work with the Canon A80?

The bottom line is that if it doesn't work now it is fairly likely that it will work with later firmware upgrades. But since only the minority of us own X5 and Canons you will either have to make a gamble or wait until someone else posts up compatibility.

You could always be the first!

[korinengell]

That's kind of a pretty big assumption.

I wouldn't reccomend someone buy the X5 (or any other device) if it would take a "possible" future firmware upgrade, in order to get compatability with an item they depend on (or would really like to have compatability for).

Just remember that firmware updates are a bonus. Some companies are better than others, but the true bottom line is that no one has to make them.

Firmware upgrades are not something to be counting on.

Make your decisions based on what something's got upon release (or at the time of your purchase)... not what it might have some time in the future.

There will definitely be future firmware upgrades to the X5. Look at the history of other iAudio products. Adding compatability for more devices on a feature that is already there is not hard to do. It is a smart decision from a marketing point of view and a company point of view. I'm not saying it *will* happen. I said it was *likely*. I had a look at some release notes on M3 firmware upgrades and I have to say I was reasonably impressed at the bug fixes and enhanced features. I write embedded software for a living...we do the same sort of firware upgrades here. It enhances the product and it enhances company image. And more importatntly it is a relatively cheap and easy upgrade to the product!

I think it is a very reasonable assumption to say that later firmware upgrades will include a greater list of compatible devices with the USB-OTG given that this is *seems* a very software specific development issue from what I've seen of it. And software is easy to change. But, like I said it is a gamble to whether or not it will work if it's compatibility has not already been tested and listed. If you're a gambling man (which I am not) and you have the luxury of time to wait (which I do not) then sit on your ass and wait for someone else to test it for you. That is perfectly reasonable also.

Now if you want to talk about adding something like an ID3 tag database then I would say don't get your hopes up! Because it is a completely new feature and generally software companies have great big red flags that go up at this point indicating increased risk, increased bugs... but like all things, anything is possible and being probably the no1 request on the list of added features this would most probably be it. But my opinions on this should be reserved for another thread...

[DirtHerder]

Well if you feel confident, that's great for you.

In any case, I'm not here to try to convince you otherwise. If you are ok with courting disappointment then by all means.

Personally, I never bank on an assumption. Expecially a one-sided one. I haven't heard a peep from Cowon stating that they will indeed support Canon camera's, just unsubstatiated opinions from individuals that don't even have posession of the item in question.

If I was hoping to use this device as a digital wallet for my photos while on the road (as most people that are interested in this device's USB OTG compatability with a digi cam are), I definitely wouldn't be plonking down the 3 or 4 bills (give or take) unless I knew that the device would indeed fill that role (with my existing gear). If I was a pro hoping to do the same for my work.. I DEFINITELY would not be depending on an assumption (sorry, either way you cut it, it's an assumption... period).

But like I said. That's just me.


There will definitely be future firmware upgrades to the X5. Look at the history of other iAudio products. Adding compatability for more devices on a feature that is already there is not hard to do. It is a smart decision from a marketing point of view and a company point of view. I'm not saying it *will* happen. I said it was *likely*. I had a look at some release notes on M3 firmware upgrades and I have to say I was reasonably impressed at the bug fixes and enhanced features. I write embedded software for a living...we do the same sort of firware upgrades here. It enhances the product and it enhances company image. And more importatntly it is a relatively cheap and easy upgrade to the product!

I think it is a very reasonable assumption to say that later firmware upgrades will include a greater list of compatible devices with the USB-OTG given that this is *seems* a very software specific development issue from what I've seen of it. And software is easy to change. But, like I said it is a gamble to whether or not it will work if it's compatibility has not already been tested and listed. If you're a gambling man (which I am not) and you have the luxury of time to wait (which I do not) then sit on your ass and wait for someone else to test it for you. That is perfectly reasonable also.

Now if you want to talk about adding something like an ID3 tag database then I would say don't get your hopes up! Because it is a completely new feature and generally software companies have great big red flags that go up at this point indicating increased risk, increased bugs... but like all things, anything is possible and being probably the no1 request on the list of added features this would most probably be it. But my opinions on this should be reserved for another thread...

[korinengell]

Well if you feel confident, that's great for you.

In any case, I'm not here to try to convince you otherwise. If you are ok with courting disappointment then by all means.

Personally, I never bank on an assumption. Expecially a one-sided one. I haven't heard a peep from Cowon stating that they will indeed support Canon camera's, just unsubstatiated opinions from individuals that don't even have posession of the item in question.

If I was hoping to use this device as a digital wallet for my photos while on the road (as most people that are interested in this device's USB OTG compatability with a digi cam are), I definitely wouldn't be plonking down the 3 or 4 bills (give or take) unless I knew that the device would indeed fill that role (with my existing gear). If I was a pro hoping to do the same for my work.. I DEFINITELY would not be depending on an assumption (sorry, either way you cut it, it's an assumption... period).

But like I said. That's just me.

You do realise that you are arguing the exact same point? The only difference is that you are expressing what you are going to do and what your opinon is in buying the device before you know for sure it will be compatible with a particular camera.

I simply said if it's a risk you're willing to take then buy it...and maybe you will be disappointed, but there is also a chance that Cowon might come through for you in a firmware upgrade, but then again maybe they won't. It is a gamble. I never guaranteed anything. I don't work for Cowon.

You are not adding to the discussion. No one cares what *you* are going to do. I am simply providing people with the information that may help them make up their mind about what *they* want to do.

[DirtHerder]

The main difference is that you are implying quite a bit of misleading information.

The bottom line is that if it doesn't work now it is fairly likely that it will work with later firmware upgrades.

There will definitely be future firmware upgrades to the X5. Look at the history of other iAudio products. Adding compatability for more devices on a feature that is already there is not hard to do.

Sure it is very likely that Cowon will release a firmware... but that isn't the question at hand. It's very specific. Will the X5 work with Canon camera's or won't it. Your assumption based statements aren't helping anyone. At least I am trying to prevent people from making a poor decision based on pure speculation.

I am simply providing people with the information that may help them make up their mind about what *they* want to do.

That is what has got me the most concerned. Your information isn't really information at all. And so it should be labeled as such. Assumption based speculation - Use wih caution.

No one may care what *I* may decide to do. But at least *I* am not making statements that may influence someone into making a poor decision based on *your* ill informed (let's face it, you are stacking assumptions a top assumptions here) statements.

This thread is starting to smell of smoke without any real solution for Strider (unfortunately this thread has been more full of complaints about Sony and ill informed assumption based speculation than any real information for him) so I'm going to back off for a few days (if you feel the need to fire up the flame thrower feel free, I know that some people find some measure of satisfaction by wielding it).

Strider, my suggestion for you would be to wait until compatability has been confirmed (though I'm sure for you this probably goes without saying).

From your initial posting it sounds like you are really banking on the X5 as a digital wallet for your photos (I'm hoping for the same thing and have been waiting for the X5 60 gb for the very same reason), so it makes no sense to "gamble" on it till you know for sure.

I'm sorry we can't do much better for yah, but without any real-world X5 tests (though it sounds like there are people willing to do so once their orders come in) or official statements of compatability from the manufacturer, it would be wrong of us to say otherwise (I know of some folks that have gotten screwed with some other mp3 players with USB-OTG because of assumptions such as those mentioned in this thread).

[korinengell]

An amicable solution DirtHerder...

I don't see my opinion as being misleading. I stated several reasons based on factual information as to why I have that opinion. But I gave no guarantees. I made no promises.

I too am very interested in the USB-OTG abilities of the X5 with Canon cameras as I currently own an IXUS 400 and I am planning on owning an X5 very soon and I am travelling for an indefinitely long period of time around Europe. I have a vested interest in having the X5 work with my camera because I have a single 256MB CF card that is probably good for about 1 month of travelling before I have to offload the photos somewhere.

Maybe the X5 will support my camera. Maybe it wont. Maybe it will in the Future. I admitted I don't know. Do I think it is worth gambling and buying the X5 without forknowledge? That's up to individuals to decide.

I have to make up my mind quickly because I am running out of time and my options are pretty limited. I haven't really seen any other hard-drive mp3 players around without DRM and with USB-OTG. If anyone knows of any I certainly would like to hear about them. I'm sure other people would be interested too.

Then again I may just have to take a punt and hope I get lucky.

[DirtHerder]

Thanks korinengell.

Let's just keep our collective fingers crossed and hope that the X5 turns out to be the mp3-player-cum-on-the-road-storage that we've all been looking for.

Quite frankly I'm tired of looking and waiting (I've been looking for a very long time now... years) so this'll be quite a relief.

^_~

[Martinp]

What I have heard from inside Cowon is that Canon compatibility is not too great at the moment, but Cowon expects to be resolving this issue in the near future via firmware upgrades as far as possible.

[zaphanathpaneah]

Then this matches with Canon's firmware which is not too great at the moment.

[Erasure4ever]

You can always use your CF adaptor with the X5 if the actual camera can't link to the X5 assuming USB-OTG works with non-selfpowered USB devices. Adaptors/readers are pretty cheap nowadays.

[korinengell]

I don't have a card reader...my camera is mass storage compliant. I've never needed one. I don't think USB-OTG will work with a card reader anyway.

[TZ dave]

I don't have a card reader...my camera is mass storage compliant. I've never needed one. I don't think USB-OTG will work with a card reader anyway.

Is it possible for any lucky X5 owners to test this? I can say personly it would guarentee me buying an X5 and make updating my camera a whole lot simpler, cheers

[soup440]

My Dad has an Canon EOS 10D, so I'll test that out as soon as I get an X5, which could be a while, or a short time...but that's a different issue.

[s-one]

I'll give you guys a compatability report between the X5 and my Canon G6 as soon as I get my hands on the iAudio.

Did you get your X5 yet? I'm waiting arrival of a G6 and hoping the two mate.
Thanks,

[pai]

i've tested the x5, a cardreader and a card with pictures taken by an ixus 40. it works fine.

[idiotekniQues]

i've tested the x5, a cardreader and a card with pictures taken by an ixus 40. it works fine.

which brand of card reader?

[pai]

transcend. it's the usb 2.0 7-in-1 type. the sandisk imagemate 12-in-1 should also work. look at the "compatible device" sticky

[idiotekniQues]

transcend. it's the usb 2.0 7-in-1 type. the sandisk imagemate 12-in-1 should also work. look at the "compatible device" sticky

yah i saw that sticky but i am sure others are compatible as well, so i am hoping one of those real small ones that is like the size of a large key that only fits one type of card like CF or just SD (i want a CF one) so that it is super portable.

i have also heard good thigns about dazzle being compatible as well.

i saw a real small Lexmark cf card reader, im hopin someone can test that out if they have it :)

[esca]

so i am hoping one of those real small ones that is like the size of a large key that only fits one type of card like CF or just SD (i want a CF one) so that it is super portable.

:)

i actually have an ultra portable sd card reader from i/o magic it doesn't work; the light on it just blinks while i stare at it. i used my old siig 7 in 1 reader usb 1.1 and that didn't work either.

[i5 user]

esca, would you please kindly post your findings on the sticky thread of USB-OTG. I think many guys here, including me, are interested to know more about the card reader compatibility.

[Thebouns]

do you think if you go to a store with a card and your player they will let you try out the readers, i will do this when i get my X5 but im wondering whether or not anyone has done this already

[i5 user]

do you think if you go to a store with a card and your player they will let you try out the readers
I don't think so.