iAudiophile has an X5 in hand!

[austinv]

Yesss!

I just received the X5, straight from Korea. :)

I'll be busy writing up a review today but if you have some specific questions - that havn't been answered before (please) - I'll try to respond.

Otherwise, just give me a couple days and I can probably get this review finished with everything you wanted to know.


Austin Vaughan
Admin, DAPreview + iAudiophile

[zaphanathpaneah]

No need to answer right now but the thing we really need to know from someone who has it and not from photos or speculation is.....

1) How is the sound?
2) How does it feel in your hand? Big? Heavy?
3) How is the screen?
4) How is it sturdy feeling or cheap plastic?

[shaka_1205]

Can you answer these question in the review please ?

1) How does it feel in your jeans ?
2) How's the video quality like ?
3) How big is it compared to the iPod ?

[wolff]

Is the sound quality similar (or even better) to the M3?
Can´t wait to get my hands on the X5!

[austinv]

keep the questions coming and i'll be sure to answer them in my review. :)

i'll take pictures and videos as well so you can see it all

[zaphanathpaneah]

You....ROCK..Dude. No matter what that other guy said about you in that stupid post you are OK in my book.

[fflakes]

I would like to get a good idea of how the size is. In my opinion the iriver 300s are definitely too big. If it's like that then i'll wait until they slim it down or come out with a microHD player.

[jw0613]

we need review NOW !! lol.. j/k..
I actually want to know the quality of the screen..
any stuck or dead pixles ?

thanks !!

[luuk]

wohoo! finally!
I would like to read in the review how well ii shockprove is. with walking or a little run (about 20 seconds).
i'm always late for the bus, so i often run for about 20 seconds.
maybe its been questioned earlier but i really want to know if there are enough pixels on the screen, or do you see the pixels seperatly.
and offcourse how do you control this beauty, is it easy to learn? are there any misplaced buttons?
how is the batterylife while playing highbitrate mp3's/ wma/ other files?
is the x5 better in soundquality or other options (that the m3 also has) better then the m3?
How does the x5 feel, what kind of material is the shell made of?
as zaphanath said:
you guys ROCK!
can't wait for the review

[strider]

- how well does the scrolling work (is it speed sensitive?)
- id3 tagging support --- can you browse using tags?
- what's the dynamic playlist support like?
- how long do pictures take to load? (different sizes, 100k, 500k, 1mb jpegs perhaps?)

thanks!

[taz]

wikid wikid. nice to know you have the honours of a first english review.

size is also a concern for me as i also think the h300 series is too big, however seeing the pictures it looks as though the 20 and 30gb look around about the same size as the 40gb m3 or m3l.

enough speciulation. and english review would tell all. make sure its longer then that olympus mr100 review :)

oh yea, it may be a good sign of good things to come. in my religion, its new years today :)

[strider]

it is new years, actually, in many parts of the world...

also
- is the 'color sound' logo distracting when you're watching videos?
- how do the controls feel?

[TheNipper]

We need to know EVERYTHING about this player. Give it a good workout and let us know what's what. Looking forward to your review. Thanks for taking the time to write it.

[IG88]

What video formats can you convert from in the Jet Audio/Shell software?
How long does it take to convert?
What it the final file, type, extension?
Approx how many MB per minute for iAudio formatted video..?




Did you get this from Cowon, or has it been purchased???

[PouncePony]

Can't wait to read your review.

- can you confirm "no browsing by ID tags".
- is the display font size customizable?
- how flexible are OTF playlists? Can you move tracks around in a playlist? Can you queue a song to play next?


Thanks,

Pony

[hei]

- Does the file/folder/id3 tags display support Unicode?
- Does the player resume at the right place in a playlist after a power off?
- Does the player "shuffle" properly, and while in a playlist?
- Can save a dynamic playlist to the pc?
- Any limitation to the length of folders, filenames, Id3 tags etc?
- Is the display font adjustable?
- Can charge through USB?
- Is the USB-OTG easy to use?
- can do file delete on the player?
- Display turn off after a timeout to save power?

Really waiting for a readable review. especially in comparison to the Iriver H3xx. thanks a lot! :D

[austinv]

good questions people i'll try to get to them all in due time. i'm swamped today with this and dapreview since rob is off visiting Archos headquarters to see thier newest, secret stuff.

Some things i may not be able to figure out right now since the manual is entirely in Korean. Video converting could be an issue since the details are sort of important.

Well, all I can so far is that yes, the X5 is very, very awesome. :D

[eddycha]

just a question austin if you get round to it?

Did you buy the x5 or did they send you one to review free of charge cos cowon are just sterling blokes :p

ed

[misticaudio]

I bow in your honor... you've out scooped us all DAPper Don!!!

Now, details damnit...

Just give us a taste while you're writing at least.

Hey, I know where you can get a case for that bad boy!

[austinv]

ok, here's a little taste ;)

http://www.dapreview.net/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=138

[korinengell]

Good pics!

[Pepe]

Great pictures.
It looks a lot better than the ipod. I alredy have an m3 otherwise i would go for it.

Is that the X5 20gb, or the X5l 20Gb?

Edit: So and how is the battery life? Is that bettert than on the M3?

[cobravap]

It is the X5, you can look @ the picture of the box cause it shows it clearly.

[Mikeguy]

Would be great to have, in a review, a comparison to iRiver's H-3xx players, the nearest competitors in terms of capabilities ...

[Travu]

Please Tells us if the x5 supports external mics
and also if the usb otg is compatable wit anything else besides cameras
thanks

[8ounce]

I agree with Mikeguy... definitely would be nice to see some comparison pics to the iRiver H3XX series.. that's what I'm choosing between.

Thanks

[Giant Cow of Death]

From another person deciding between the iRiver H3XX series and the X5 it would be nice to see some comparisons mostly of the video features. The iRiver ones have better resolution, but the X5s have better fps. As far as watching videos goes which is more viewable, what are the problems with both, etc.

[wolverine]

From another person deciding between the iRiver H3XX series and the X5 it would be nice to see some comparisons mostly of the video features. The iRiver ones have better resolution, but the X5s have better fps. As far as watching videos goes which is more viewable, what are the problems with both, etc.

i would also like to know

[korinengell]

If you have any digital camera's available can you test to see it USB OTG works with them? A few people have raised questions about Canons and I am particularly interested in Canon compatibility also.

[IG88]

ok, here's a little taste ;)

http://www.dapreview.net/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=138


Excuse my lack of knowledge on the headphones..
But those 'red' ones look cool, what are they?

[tkaliniouk]

is it me or is the ipod changing in those pics? Sometimes the hump is thicker than the ipod, sometimes exactly the same width as ipod

[danson]

Somehow it looks as if the upper half of the X5 is thiker than the M3. Is this true, or am I only having a bad dream ?

[danson]

lets wait for the 20 gb microdrives...
http://www.sci-tech-today.com/story.xhtml%3Fstory_id%3D32338

[Dieter]

1. Does the X5 play ogg-files gapless? That would be very important for me.
Some small ogg-files to test gapless playback can be found here 1.ogg (http://www.mood-indigo.info/magix/1.ogg) and here 2.ogg (http://www.mood-indigo.info/magix/2.ogg)
Correspondign mp3-files to test gapless playback can be found here 1.MP3 (http://www.mood-indigo.info/magix/1.MP3) and here 2.MP3 (http://www.mood-indigo.info/magix/2.MP3)

2. Does it even play mp3-files gapless (encoded with lame > 3.90 which writes the correct last frame size in a tag to allow gapless playback)

3. Does it support ReplayGain?

Thanks a lot for checking this out!

[Maxo]

Um this iPod is a iPod Photo right? Because a normal iPod looks thinner in my eyes (just seen one 3 hours ago)

[strider]

those look like high end grados

definitely don't come with the x5;>

[shaka_1205]

Maxo: This is a 40GB iPod

[muikano]

1)Transfer speeds. Not extensive transfer speeds but how long does it take to fill it to the brim with Mp3s.

[bradavon]

Nice one Austin.

1. Is it really the same size as the M3?
2. Is the video quality acceptable to play a film?
3. What is the video codec used?
4. How long does the battery really last?
5. I don't suppose there is any chance you can charge the X5 from the built in USB on the GO socket or upload/download files?

[Maxo]

Alright, I posted my question already here: http://www.iaudiophile.net/forums/viewtopic.php?id=1591

The X5 can handle ID3 Tags right? So is it possible to use it with itunes? Or is it possible to make playlists like "best rated" oder "most played" (for example with the iaudio software?)

[defago]

oooh, yes- nice grados there. Those arent the R series are they?
Should be able to get some good fidelity reviews if thats what you're listening from...

[bradavon]

Please explain Defago???

[Krishna]

Alright, I posted my question already here: http://www.iaudiophile.net/forums/viewtopic.php?id=1591

The X5 can handle ID3 Tags right? So is it possible to use it with itunes? Or is it possible to make playlists like "best rated" oder "most played" (for example with the iaudio software?)


The X5 does not support Idv3 databasing at the moment. Plus it would impossible for the X5 to read anything from Itunes because Itunes puts the info in a seperate database file, not in the tags themselves.

[Krishna]

oooh, yes- nice grados there. Those arent the R series are they?
Should be able to get some good fidelity reviews if thats what you're listening from...


No they are modified Sr325's. You can get it done here:

http://www.headphile.com/

[austinv]

just posted this to head-fi so i'll share here too (first impressions)

I'm pretty happy with the X5 so far. it is a lot like the iRiver H100/300 series, both of which I've owned before, but without all the little issues that really irked me.

pros
- has, or damn near, gapless MP3 playback. i can't decide whether to officially call it yet or not. Tracks aren't "spliced" together intelligently like on the Rio Karma but there isn't a gap either. You can hear a track ending and the next starting, it's fast, like 1/10 sec. no gap, but it's not invisible either. what y'all say?
- build quality is absolutely top of the line
- GUI system is sensible, good looking
- Line in recording, FM recording, voice recording
- recording quality is excellent, up to 320kbit
- FM radio has good reception
- no obvious bugs, stable OS
- can delete any file or folder
- joystick better than "touch-strips" IMO
- lots of EQ options to sweeten the sound
- LCD remote will be available
- SQ very good as you'd expect from iAudio
- Plays movies, though I havn't tested this yet since they need converting using JetShell
- other than video converting, no software required

cons
- screen resolution isn't high enough to make it pics look very good (not that i care)
- USB OTG didn't work with my camera or iPod both of which are MSC devices. was hoping i could get iPod to connect and browse it's HD but no go
- thickness could be an issue with the "hump", and the joystick extending 2mm above that
- ports were offloaded from main unit to mini-dock, like iPod
- location of headphone port is debatable, personally i prefer top-mount but that's what i'm used to. there are some instances where side-mount is preferable
- NO ID3-TAG dB... when we complained about this at CeBIT, all the rep could us was "ID3 is hard!" ... like, what? you.. have a color gui, movies, recording.. and a little thing like an ID3-tag databasing/browsing is too hard?? even the Rio Carbon, which such a meager CPU has an ID3-tag dB. so, it's file/folder browsing only, alphanumeric sorting

Basic package will not include LCD remote, case, or desktop dock although it will be up to distributors on whether to include these and set prices.

i expect the basic pack will cost about $300 for the 20gig version which is a very good price considering the 20gig iPod goes for the same

[austinv]

couple other things

- USB transfers are very fast, some of the fastest I've seen
- can't view pics while listening to music
- video playback looks just fine, using the clips that come pre-loaded
- it can indeed charge over USB
- does have OTG playlisting but it's rather basic compared to Karma or NJB3. you can remove single or all tracks from OTG playlist but not rearrange or save multiples.
- screen REQUIRES backlight to see anything. otherwise it goes totally dark. that's the drawback of TFT displays compared to plain 'ol LCD's like the regular iPod. so, not good for use outside in the sun.
- case is made of some metallic alloy, feels solid and scratch resistant

[korinengell]

I can't believe they still don't have ID3-tag searching sorted out... I write embedded software for a living... It's easy to create a database so long as you only have to do it once and have a bit of persistent memory to store it in. You just need to scan the disc to ensure all the songs are still there every time you boot up. You could even be lazy and not even bother to check that all the tag data in your data base is the same as the ID3 tag, just whether or not the track exists on the hard drive if processing time to build the database is a problem. Which it really damn well shouldn't be if it can play compressed audio and video. Otherwise you can just have a selectable option to rebuild the entire database if you've changed some of the ID3 tag on your computer and reloaded them on the device. Hard pffft. Really not impressed about that.

What camera did you try USB OTG with austinv?

Hopefully they will be able to get this sorted out with later firmware updates since iAudio are supposed to be fairly responsive in that regard.

[Dieter]

- has, or damn near, gapless MP3 playback. i can't decide whether to officially call it yet or not. Tracks aren't "spliced" together intelligently like on the Rio Karma but there isn't a gap either. You can hear a track ending and the next starting, it's fast, like 1/10 sec. no gap, but it's not invisible either. what y'all say?


That's not gapless. True gapless is only when you can't recognize it switching from one track to the next.

Has it gapless OGG playback?

Here are two small files to test 1.ogg (http://www.mood-indigo.info/magix/1.ogg) and 2.ogg (http://www.mood-indigo.info/magix/2.ogg)

[bradavon]

Thanks Austin.

Sorry if it's already been answered but:

6. Is the headphone socket standard? So I can plug any speakers I like into it.

I'm pleased it's not fully gapless as I've always really hated the idea of that. If I wanted one 60 minute song merged together and therefore losing the separate nature of each song I'd splice them together myself. I'm sure the artist wants them to be separate songs also.

Plays movies, though I havn't tested this yet since they need converting using JetShell
Please give more detail. Do we have to use Jetshell?

ports were offloaded from main unit to mini-dock, like iPod
This was the same with the M3 though right?

Basic package will not include LCD remote, case, or desktop dock although it will be up to distributors on whether to include these and set prices.
I could've sworn it came with the case.

Personally I don't like cases and would only want the remote and cradle.

it is a lot like the iRiver H100/300 series, both of which I've owned before, but without all the little issues that really irked me.
Please explain, both points. Thanks

- screen REQUIRES backlight to see anything. otherwise it goes totally dark. that's the drawback of TFT displays compared to plain 'ol LCD's like the regular iPod. so, not good for use outside in the sun.
AFAIK TFT is a form of LCD. Is it not then? and is LCD inferior?

Why can't it be used outside in the sun, huh?

[Dieter]

I'm pleased it's not fully gapless as I've always really hated the idea of that. If I wanted one 60 minute song merged together and therefore losing the separate nature of each song I'd splice them together myself. I'm sure the artist wants them to be separate songs also.

That's not what gapless playback means. Gapless playback should never merge songs together which are originally not merged. Usually every song has some time of silence at the end and if you have two separate songs than they are played with a gap in between even on a gapless player like the Rio Karma.

Only if you have songs which are orginally already merged, which means that there is originally a continuous transmission between these songs (like on some Pink Floyd albums, on live albums or on operas) than the player should not ADD a gap between the songs since the continuos sound of the music is interrupted.

[bradavon]

I know that's what I said. I was being sarcastic about the merging part.

All the CDs I've ever listened to have had a gap at the end of each song. Some of the Pink Floyd albums are different but they're very much in the minority.

[austinv]

well, the X5 does gapless MP3 playback in that there is no delay between the end of a track and the start of the next. iPod and most others either insert a pause or have a pause due to poor buffering.

but consider that MP3's typically have empty frames and the start and/or end. if you play two together, one right after another with zero delay, you will still detect the switch. the minute "gap" you hear is actually built into the MP3s themselves.

karma has dual processors which give it enough power to analyze the start/end of a track and skip past empty frames (IIRC). it's a lot more than simply playing MP3s with no gap between them.

so it comes down to the meaning of the word, i guess. "gapless" among dap-heads is generally thought of as the Karma's implementation so we'll go with that for now and just say the X5 is the next best thing

[Dieter]

I don't want to bother you, but what's about gapless playing of OGG files? OGG files do not have empty frames at the start or end and should be played really gapless if the player doesn't add a pause between the songs.

[taz]

wohoooooooo. thats wikid. i would agree. i thought the buffering technique would be used as it is on the m3, a lil bit crappy.

could this be a software configuring thing or is it due to an update in hardware.

if software i hope they decide to give one final push for the m3 with a firmware upgrade. i rememebr exity said a looong time ago that there could be as either the x5 or the m5 is running the same processor.

i doubt they will but one can always hope.....need the x5 review so we could all have the pleasure in reading :)

[JoeY2k]

just posted this to head-fi so i'll share here too (first impressions)

I'm pretty happy with the X5 so far. it is a lot like the iRiver H100/300 series, both of which I've owned before, but without all the little issues that really irked me.

pros
- has, or damn near, gapless MP3 playback. i can't decide whether to officially call it yet or not. Tracks aren't "spliced" together intelligently like on the Rio Karma but there isn't a gap either. You can hear a track ending and the next starting, it's fast, like 1/10 sec. no gap, but it's not invisible either. what y'all say?
- build quality is absolutely top of the line
- GUI system is sensible, good looking
- Line in recording, FM recording, voice recording
- recording quality is excellent, up to 320kbit
- FM radio has good reception
- no obvious bugs, stable OS
- can delete any file or folder
- joystick better than "touch-strips" IMO
- lots of EQ options to sweeten the sound
- LCD remote will be available
- SQ very good as you'd expect from iAudio
- Plays movies, though I havn't tested this yet since they need converting using JetShell
- other than video converting, no software required

cons
- screen resolution isn't high enough to make it pics look very good (not that i care)
- USB OTG didn't work with my camera or iPod both of which are MSC devices. was hoping i could get iPod to connect and browse it's HD but no go
- thickness could be an issue with the "hump", and the joystick extending 2mm above that
- ports were offloaded from main unit to mini-dock, like iPod
- location of headphone port is debatable, personally i prefer top-mount but that's what i'm used to. there are some instances where side-mount is preferable
- NO ID3-TAG dB... when we complained about this at CeBIT, all the rep could us was "ID3 is hard!" ... like, what? you.. have a color gui, movies, recording.. and a little thing like an ID3-tag databasing/browsing is too hard?? even the Rio Carbon, which such a meager CPU has an ID3-tag dB. so, it's file/folder browsing only, alphanumeric sorting

Basic package will not include LCD remote, case, or desktop dock although it will be up to distributors on whether to include these and set prices.

i expect the basic pack will cost about $300 for the 20gig version which is a very good price considering the 20gig iPod goes for the same
not to offend you but since not having reviewed the m3 (and therefore not knowing which "pros" were already existend in the previous model).. what does really remain that can be considered as a "step forward"?? as for now its just the screen/joystick and usb otg. delete feature can be fixed in the m3..
so nothing new really

ur comments are still useful regarding the gui..

[austinv]

i had the M3 for a month or so but i didn't write up anything formal. the x5 is a lot better, imo. i'll get to that in good time but most important is the display on the main unit, as i wasn't happy with having to use the M3's remote all the time. navigation is easier with the joystick and the screen is much easier to see/read being bigger and colorized.

[JoeY2k]

nice one..
a realistic battery drain test (or maybe 2 test runs with 192kb/s mp3 and ogg to satisfy those codec geeks) is higly appreciated because especially when u switch on a hdd player or just skipping/scrolling every now and then it gets really frustrating. in other words..how big is the impact of the new screen?

[bradavon]

7. Does the player properly shut off or is it like those darn IPAQ's that lose power in a few days?

Which causes all manner of problems at work when users forget charge the bloody things up. The stupid thing is it takes all of 3-4 seconds to turn them on from fully off anyway.

[JoeY2k]

somewhere i did read that the m3 doesnt loose power..so this is going to be same with the x5 i think

[wolverine]

how does the x5 compare to the Iriver h3xx in video playing?
i heard the x5 resolution was bad.

[Bull Moose]

Is the "hump" on the player really that big of a deal IYO, and does it feel chunky in your hand?

[Bull Moose]

Oh yeah, what about protecting the screen? In those DAP pics, the carrying case doesn't appear to have a protective window.

[austinv]

no, the hump aint't a big deal at all.

the case in the pics is not the final/official case

display res is 160x128 if you call that bad, lol

video playback is just fine. i'm converting some TV shows now, JetAudio is pretty quick about it too, about 3x realtime on my celeron laptop

[Krishna]

Intial battery life impressions?

[austinv]

estimate 10-12 hours typical use (mostly audio, some GUI fidgeting, light video use). adequate, imo.


i will do a full range of battery tests but not for the preliminary review, that stuff takes time to monitor. for the full review, yes. estimate 2 weeks to delivery. still well before X5 arrives in the US.

will test:
- audio only on album repeat, medium volume (20)
- video playback on repeat, (20)
- recording length, line-in, 192kbit
- recording length, voice, 64kbit

run tests twice, report on the average

[wolff]

can FM channels saved with channels name? (like i5)?

[Krishna]

Thanks Austin.

[Dieter]

I am still interested if OGG files are played gapless.

[eddycha]

hey duno if u saw. i was just wondering if u actually purchased the player from korea or if they sent you one for free cos you are a reviewer

[bradavon]

I hope this spelling mistake is fixed in the final product:

http://www.dapreview.net/gallery/albums/DAP/cowon/iaudio_x5/2/P4150050.JPG

8. Please explain this picture? :

http://www.dapreview.net/gallery/albums/DAP/cowon/iaudio_x5/2/P4150059.JPG

[tsayin]

It looks like they added the feature that some were requesting to be able to disable charging when plugged into USB.

[bradavon]

Why would you want to?

[Josh841]

Can rechargable batteries get damaged when they are re-charged when not empty?!?
I rember someone said it somewhere

[tsayin]

Bradavon, I have no idea. Batteries do lose capacity over thousands of charge cycles, but Li-Ion have no memory effect, so it's like buying flood insurance in Denver. Sure you can get it cheap, but why would you want it?

[Aachenmade]

That's no very typical for li-ion batteries.
But I can give three examples in which you wouldn't want th X5 to load itself over the USB connection.

1. You use a notebook to put new music on the X5 and it is running on battery. Loading the X5 would cause more power consumption at the notebook.

2. You use the X5 at the USB-OTG port of another X5.

3. You use the X5 at a non powered USB-hub with another USB device that needs lots of power (e.g. a bluetooth stick)

Bye
Aachenmade

[bradavon]

Josh841 - That used to be the case but I don't think it is anymore.

Thanks Tsayin. Having never been to Denver I don't get the joke though?

[tsayin]

Aachenmade, right, if you actually go by the description on the screen, it does make some sense. Some USB hosts are not able to supply the kind of current that the M3 would draw while charging. But there were a bunch of (misguided in my opinion) people who posted on these forums asking for what I mentioned.

Bradavon, Denver is in the mountains just about a mile above sea level. It's pretty unlikely that they will have any flooding there.

[bradavon]

Thanks Tsayin. The States is a place I want to revisit.

[korinengell]

It is a very good idea that they allow the user to disable charging via USB. USB specifications do not actually allow device to draw so much current that it can charge a battery via the connection. Someone obviously thought it was a "good idea" a long time ago... which seems qualified so long as you only ever connect it to a PC (I'm thinking about the USB toaster I saw on slashdot...geez). However if you want to connect the device to another portable device, exactly like what USB OTG is for, then you definitely don't want it! The "good idea" was to have the user able to select when they want to do it!

[bradavon]

USB Toaster?

[Fido]

Is there a loading problem when browsing through the files like some people have complained about the M3?

[tsayin]

Well, I've played with an archos av420, and transferring a lot of files (at usb 1.1 speeds, ugh!) really kills the battery, so you need the external adaptor as well, since it can't source power through USB. USB is supposed to supply 500mA of current, which is enough to charge slowly, or more importantly, run the unit while you transfer files so that you still have some charge afterwards.

But yeah, some older hosts only meet the 100mA level of the spec, especially some laptops, and I wouldn't be surprised if OTG doesn't even require that. This is less and less common, as many USB devices, such as cardreaders absolutely require the 500mA supply, and won't work without it. I'm actually really interested in how the X5 will handle supplying power, as I would like to use a cardreader with it.

Basically, the option doesn't seem that useful to me, because either you will use the wall-adaptor, in which case the unit won't pull any power off of USB anyway, or you won't, and if you don't use any external power supply, you won't have any battery charge left by the time you are done transferring.

[JJ]

2. You use the X5 at the USB-OTG port of another X5.



Not sure that that will work anyway as I believe the X5 will show as a hard disk not a Mass storage device. I have tried the M3 connecting to USB host systems and it is not recognised, I would imagine that the X5 will be the same. I should hopefully find out this week....

[Martinp]

I hope this spelling mistake is fixed in the final product:

http://www.dapreview.net/gallery/albums/DAP/cowon/iaudio_x5/2/P4150050.JPG

8. Please explain this picture? :

http://www.dapreview.net/gallery/albums/DAP/cowon/iaudio_x5/2/P4150059.JPG

Oh no! A spelling mistake! This makes the X5 crap! This is awfull! I couldn't possibly live with that! Ahhhrg! Shoot me now!

[bradavon]

Very funny! ;) . It doesn't look professional.

[beatchef]

It looks a more exotic name in my opinion, like you're setting something Final Fantasy-like, not just a bippy alarm hahaha

[peter]

So how is the text file viewing??? Can you only view files with the .txt extension? Has anyone tried this?

[Fido]

txt files have no formating, I doubt they would add support for any other text file type. But can you view text and listen to music at the same time?

[danson]

1.) I would like to know if there will be a search/jump function in the X5. You may say that dis doesn't make sense without a keyboard, but I imagine it to work like searching a name on your cellphone: Enter the first letter, then the list shrinks to all songs beginning with this letter, than choose the second letter and so on (always being able to scrol the list), until you have found your song. Although I must admit that the list of songs is much bigger than the list of contacts on a cellphone.

2.) Why must I wait longer for the 60GB X5. Its as if cowon wants you to buy the 30 GB X5 first!

3.) Generall question: Isn't it possible to exchange the HD of DAP?

[korinengell]

1.) I would like to know if there will be a search/jump function in the X5. You may say that dis doesn't make sense without a keyboard, but I imagine it to work like searching a name on your cellphone: Enter the first letter, then the list shrinks to all songs beginning with this letter, than choose the second letter and so on (always being able to scrol the list), until you have found your song. Although I must admit that the list of songs is much bigger than the list of contacts on a cellphone.

2.) Why must I wait longer for the 60GB X5. Its as if cowon wants you to buy the 30 GB X5 first!

3.) Generall question: Isn't it possible to exchange the HD of DAP?

No. Because everyone else does too. No

[cobravap]

I have a question, are there any external battery packs that will work in extending the life of this player? Like the external ones for the H3xx series?

Thanks

[Krishna]

You can build battery packs with some simple parts from Radioshack and soldering. www.dapreview.com also used to sell them.

[bradavon]

There is one out there and mentioned in this forum somewhere for the M3.

[JoeY2k]

http://www.dapstore.com/pi2063262237.htm?categoryId=15
battery pack

they also got the new 30gb toshiba harddrive..for those who like to upgrade

[bradavon]

And this definitely works with the M3? So is X5 therefore compatible?

[JoeY2k]

i tested this configurtation myself and the delivered plugs (infact the smallest of them) works with the m3. and from the pictures the subpack of the x5 looks exactly the same.

[zaphanathpaneah]

It supports an external mike but only with the add on pack

[austinv]

the X5 will not be supporting any iD3-tag databasing

me and eXity have spoken with our contact at Cowon and basically, they don't care about it since Koreans don't care about it. simple as that.

IMO file/folder browsing is not adequate by itself for a DAP in the American market. every other player on the market supports iD3-tag browsing but it doesn't seem to register as an important issue for them. _shrug_

[beatchef]

It's seeming more and more like there's very little difference between the M3 and the X5 cept for the little colour screen at the cost of a lot of space :-S

[korinengell]

That is really disappointing that Cowon take that attitude. Being a global company you'd think they would have a broader perspective on these sort of things. The ID3 tag database really wouldn't be that difficult to do either. So far this is the only really disappointing thing I have found about Cowon and the X5.

[Josh841]

i just want an m3 with a screen black and white or colour!!! I dont mind!

[Dieter]

@austinv:

Did you meanwhile have an opportunity to check whether OGG-files are played gapless? This would be THE reason for me to buy an X5. Otherwise I will try to get a Rio Karma (both Karmas I had before were broken after some weeks) which seems at the moment the only one which supports gapless playback of OGG and mp3 files.

Thanks for your effort

[PouncePony]

Austin,

Any idea when your review will be ready? The suspense is killing me ;)

Pony

[Sphax]

Hello,

About ID3 tags, i just want to say that for classical music it's not interesting cause the genre/author/album organisation is not enough (think of composer / interpret / instrument / orchestra etc...). Since i listen mostly to classical music, the X5 with his folder organisation is ok for me ;)

[noac]

five pages, pheew. Okey someone might already have asked:

How is the line-in encoding and FM recording?

[JoeY2k]

It's seeming more and more like there's very little difference between the M3 and the X5 cept for the little colour screen at the cost of a lot of space :-S

what i said

[Fido]

Why does everyone want database browsing so much? My files are already organized like that, and I don't understand how anyone could stand using it any other way. Besides it would organize things in ways you don't want. For example, I have some oompah loompah songs, I don't want them under their own catagory, I want them in the misc folder, and I don't want to make the artist name misc.

[Krishna]

It might not work for you Fido, but not everyone's going to have the exact same library that you have.

File Tree has its advantages, but at the same time Id3 tags has its major advantages.

The biggest draw that Id3 has is that you can centralize your files, but still have them in many different categories. For example you can have a File tree of Artist/Album/Track, but still be able to browse Genres. Or you can browse Years, Ratings, Moods, etc... All of which would be impratical to make seperate folders for.

You can have playlists though, but again it is impratical to have to change a whole playlist every time that you change something a file. ID3 is basically an automatic playlist maker, which is a good thing.

I personally would prefer ID3, but since my music collection is perfectly organized, I could live with File Tree.

[Fido]

Does the ipod even let you browse by year though? I thought it was a fixed format. Can you have any parameter for ID3 tags? I thought it was just a few parameters. I can understand wanting to use it to set up different browsing methods without moving files but I don't think I've actually heard of it implemented like that in an MP3 player.

[misticaudio]

@austinv:

Did you meanwhile have an opportunity to check whether OGG-files are played gapless? This would be THE reason for me to buy an X5. Otherwise I will try to get a Rio Karma (both Karmas I had before were broken after some weeks) which seems at the moment the only one which supports gapless playback of OGG and mp3 files.

Thanks for your effort

Sorry I haven't been around too much folks, been very sick. Anywho... I've had the X5 for a few days now. To finally answer Dieter' question. No, the X5 does not play OGG files gaplessly. In fact, I notice a definite gap between OGG files and almost no perceptable gap between LAME MP3 files.

Now, could be that my OGG files are not optimally encoded, but I really don't think that's the issue.

I can also report that the dock is your basic, get the job done accessory. Power, USB2.0, Line In, Line Out. Much lighter in weight than I thought it would be also.

USBOTG - Works flawlessly with my Nikon Coolpix 4200 as well as all my iRiver products that are seen as mass storage devices: H340, H140, H120, PMP120...

Photo Viewing - Handles all the photos I threw at it, granted they were all 1 meg or less and it automatically resizes them to fit the screen unlike the H300 Series iRiver Players. The wallpaper function is nice, now I can put whatever I want as a background without having to mod the firmware.

THat's it for now folks... haven't had time to do a lot with it and deciphering the manual is a bit tedious as Austin mentioned because it's in Korean.

[BlackFlag79]

misticaudio,

Did you try those OGG files that he posted for gapless, or some of your own?

[misticaudio]

My own files... encoded with OGGDrop at Q7

[tsayin]

Hey post the OTG-tested devices over here: http://www.iaudiophile.net/forums/viewtopic.php?id=1539

Let us know more when you get a chance, and congratulations!

[Dieter]

@austinv:

Did you meanwhile have an opportunity to check whether OGG-files are played gapless? This would be THE reason for me to buy an X5. Otherwise I will try to get a Rio Karma (both Karmas I had before were broken after some weeks) which seems at the moment the only one which supports gapless playback of OGG and mp3 files.

Thanks for your effort

Sorry I haven't been around too much folks, been very sick. Anywho... I've had the X5 for a few days now. To finally answer Dieter' question. No, the X5 does not play OGG files gaplessly. In fact, I notice a definite gap between OGG files and almost no perceptable gap between LAME MP3 files.


That are bad news. So it seems that I have to get another Rio Karma. Or does anybody know another DAP which plays OGG-files and mp3 files gaplessly?

[JJ]

It's seeming more and more like there's very little difference between the M3 and the X5 cept for the little colour screen at the cost of a lot of space :-S

what i said

...video playback, photo viewing, OTG just a few extra things..

[beatchef]

Limited though, something that you could do better on other things. Isn't it better to have more storage space for less money and get a PSP or something for visual entertainment?

[Krishna]

Does the ipod even let you browse by year though? I thought it was a fixed format. Can you have any parameter for ID3 tags? I thought it was just a few parameters. I can understand wanting to use it to set up different browsing methods without moving files but I don't think I've actually heard of it implemented like that in an MP3 player.


The Rio Karma certainly does it, as does the Ipod. They may not have every field (aka browse by bitrate), but they do have the basics (Artist, Album, Genre, Year, Ratings, Mood, etc).

[wolff]

sorry, but when we can expect a full review of X5?

[beatchef]

Is the FM Radio and Radio recording still screwed? That's one of the things I want to know

[bradavon]

What was wrong with on the M3?

unlike the H300 Series iRiver Players.
What did that do?

Isn't it better to have more storage space for less money and get a PSP or something for visual entertainment?
Because the PSP isn't pocket sized and the video capabilites aren't for people who want two players. They're for people who want secondary basic video.

These are two different markets! I for one want a pocket sized MP3 player but having the ability to play basic video is a lovely bonus. I sure as hell don't want two players though.

30Gb is fine for me. I can't stand the lack of display on the M3 and while I'd live with it if the X5 wasn't coming I'd much prefer it on the player.

[bradavon]

1. Is it really the same size as the M3?
2. Is the video quality acceptable to play a film?
3. What is the video codec used?
4. How long does the battery really last?
5. I don't suppose there is any chance you can charge the X5 from the built in USB on the GO socket or upload/download files?
6. Is the headphone socket standard? So I can plug any speakers I like into it.
7. Does the player properly shut off or is it like those darn IPAQ's that lose power in a few days?

Which causes all manner of problems at work when users forget charge the bloody things up. The stupid thing is it takes all of 3-4 seconds to turn them on from fully off anyway.

[beatchef]

Because the PSP isn't pocket sized and the video capabilites aren't for people who want two players. They're for people who want secondary basic video.

Just for the record, PSP is widescreen 4" display and plays videos at 29.97 frames per second at 48000hz sound, as many videos as long as you like. It's not really basic :-S

[Maxo]

1. Is it really the same size as the M3?
2. Is the video quality acceptable to play a film?
3. What is the video codec used?
4. How long does the battery really last?
5. I don't suppose there is any chance you can charge the X5 from the built in USB on the GO socket or upload/download files?
6. Is the headphone socket standard? So I can plug any speakers I like into it.
7. Does the player properly shut off or is it like those darn IPAQ's that lose power in a few days?

1. Except the bump - yes
2. Theres a Video you can download. Its really tiny and the display isnt really bigger than a Siemens S65 one.
3. XViD
4. I think it was ~12h with backlight on
5. You mean a connection to a computer? Probably it's not possible
6. YES
7. Since it has a clock I think it wont shut off - it will just go standby imo!

But if you had read the forum you would know the answers!

[beatchef]

But what we all really want to know is is it better than the M3 despite being 10GB less storage? I.e. is the screen navigation on the inbuilt screen and joystick a joy to use unlike the remote control?

[bradavon]

I don't "really" want to know that Beatchef.

2. Theres a Video you can download. Its really tiny and the display isnt really bigger than a Siemens S65 one.
Where is it thanks? I've not seen any link apart from the one of the guy recording his X5. I'm after an actual video I can download.

But if you had read the forum you would know the answers!
I have been religously looking through this and the M5 subforum since January and not all my questions have been answered, at not least directly.

Thanks again

[Fido]

7. Since it has a clock I think it wont shut off - it will just go standby imo!

But if you had read the forum you would know the answers!
The clock doesn't need the player to be in standby to run, it has a little hardware thing that keeps it remembering the time, that's why your computer remembers the time even if you shut it off. You don't need to keep the X5 on constantly, that would be ridiculous.

OGG files require more processing power so it's harder to make them gapless. There are barely any MP3 players that play MP3s gapless, so an OGG MP3 player is practically non-existant.

But what we all really want to know is is it better than the M3 despite being 10GB less storage? I.e. is the screen navigation on the inbuilt screen and joystick a joy to use unlike the remote control?

While the X5 30GB has 10GB less space it isn't 4 mm bigger like the M3 40GB, it's a tradeoff between size and space. But for me, I want the 20GB anyways so it really doesn't matter. Is it worth it? How important is size to you? And how much do you need a screen on the player, and a clock? Noone else can tell you what you want, but once the review is done you can make a better decision.

What I really want to know is how much stronger the processor is, I read some posts saying the M3 puts up a waiting sign if you browse alot.

[tsayin]

beatchef, Get the 60GB version, its 20GB bigger. Don't compare the X5 30 to the M3 40, it's really more like the M3 20.

[beatchef]

And how much do you need a screen on the player, and a clock? Noone else can tell you what you want

I said I wanted to know if navigation is better using the screen, not if I wanted a screen or a clock...

beatchef, Get the 60GB version, its 20GB bigger.

I heard it's not out for months and months, is that true or is it out at the same time? It's not likely to be in anywhere near the same price bracket sadly..

[korinengell]

The 60GB version should be available about 4-6 weeks after the 20 and 30GB models are available in your respective countries. I expect the X5L's will probably be about another 4-6 weeks after that for no good reason that I know about...

The reason there isn't a 40GB model is because it would contain the same number of hard drive platters as a 60GB version and thus be the same thickness, so they've opted to completely skip 40-45-50 GB models in favour of the big 60GB one which I think is fair given that it is basically wasted space otherwise.

This is also the reason why there isn't a 60GB X5L because the thing would be like 30mm think because of the large battery which no one would buy....

[bradavon]

Just for the record, PSP is widescreen 4" display and plays videos at 29.97 frames per second at 48000hz sound, as many videos as long as you like. It's not really basic :-S
I never said the PSP was basic I said the X5 had basic video support :)

The clock doesn't need the player to be in standby to run, it has a little hardware thing that keeps it remembering the time, that's why your computer remembers the time even if you shut it off. You don't need to keep the X5 on constantly, that would be ridiculous.
Exactly. Which makes it all the more strange PDA's do this.

[strider]

Austin, any idea when this review might be coming out?

Thanks ...

[austinv]

well, how about now?

http://www.dapreview.net/content.php?review.201

heh. just the preliminary thing.

[sexyleb]

lol, strider got told :P

[Maxo]

Um, the official specs says its 145gramms, but you say its about 180g! Is that true?

[bradavon]

Nice one cheers Austin.

[Sphax]

Yes, thanks Austin for the review.

To the ones interested in the X5L, they can find here some pictures of a fake X5L just to see its real dimensions : http://www.generationmp3.com/forum/index.php?vheader=1&showtopic=15532&st=60
Thanks to Juju87 who has made this with his little hands.

Definitely it seems too big for me, i'm not sure but may be i'll wait for the samsung YH-J70 (as slim as the X5 and quite a long batterie life, i just hope the sound is also good) before bying the X5, the fault to cowon who take too much time to release his X5 in Europe ! :)

[bradavon]

The thing is as mentioned before dimensions always looks much more than they are in reality. Sure it looks big but when it's in your hand I bet it won't.

[Krishna]

I disagree completely brad, but thats a discussion we have already been into.

Thanks alot Austin, great pre-review.

[bradavon]

dimensions always looks much more than they are in reality OR Sure it looks big but when it's in your hand I bet it won't???

[austinv]

agreed, X5 feels a lot smaller than it looks in the pics.

[nop247]

Austinv or anyone with it on hand, could you please try it with a usb hd.

I would like to know if it will work and if it does, will it play songs while connected via usb otg. this would be useful for a car or long trips. thanks

[Fido]

The real test is how it feels in your pocket, if it stretches out your pants it feels very uncomfortable. The gameboy colour, which also has a hump is very noticeable in my pants, and kinda annoying, it's 22mm in the thin part and 26mm in the thick part, which is still 4mm thicker than the X5L. I'm positive the X5 will feel fine but I'm not so sure about the X5L.

[bradavon]

I take it you mean the original colour gameboy and not the gameboy advance (I think it's called this). The one with the very limited colour set.

I ask as that's the same size as the original gameboy right? Which was big by todays standards but still easily fit in your pocket. Compared to the Gamegear anwyay :D

[Krishna]

The real test is how it feels in your pocket, if it stretches out your pants it feels very uncomfortable. The gameboy colour, which also has a hump is very noticeable in my pants, and kinda annoying, it's 22mm in the thin part and 26mm in the thick part, which is still 4mm thicker than the X5L. I'm positive the X5 will feel fine but I'm not so sure about the X5L.


I concur.

[spencerd]

Can you Actually Pre-order the x5 on shopsuntec? like will your credit card get charged when you order it? When is it supposed to be in the US?

[Josh841]

Gameboy colour is smaller than the origonal game boy

[bradavon]

By how much?

[chino9334]

I have a friend that owns an Archos AV420. I asked him for it to try it in my pocket for a day. It has a depth of 2.0 cm and it felt OK in my pant's pocket. The X5L is like 2 mm bigger in depth. Also the AV420 is bigger in width and length. I think you can used to it. At first when I saw the pics of the X5L I was decided not to buy the L but after this little experiment I will.

[Fido]

The original gameboy was huge, then came the gameboy pocket and it was smaller, I think the gameboy color is a bit bigger than the pocket.

I think I would prefer the battery pack route instead, 12 hours of actual usage would be fine for me, and I think I would prefer the 30 GB.

But either way I'm sure anyone will be more than pleased, there's always buyer worry when making a big purchase but the end result will be great whatever route you take I'm sure.

[Fido]

Can you Actually Pre-order the x5 on shopsuntec? like will your credit card get charged when you order it? When is it supposed to be in the US?

You can preorder the 20GB X5 through the page that is up now, the 30GB and L versions will be up for purchase very soon, maybe tomorrow.

I asked stephanie earlier, and she said to check on monday or tuesday.

[tjoff]

I'm wondering if it's possible to create playlists.

I know you can't save a dynamic playlist (really strange, and sad that you can't do that) but can you create and/or modify playlists in browser mode or something?

Also is it possible to organize your playlists in folders?

[soup440]

I'm pleased it's not fully gapless as I've always really hated the idea of that. If I wanted one 60 minute song merged together and therefore losing the separate nature of each song I'd splice them together myself. I'm sure the artist wants them to be separate songs also.

That's not what gapless playback means. Gapless playback should never merge songs together which are originally not merged. Usually every song has some time of silence at the end and if you have two separate songs than they are played with a gap in between even on a gapless player like the Rio Karma.

Only if you have songs which are orginally already merged, which means that there is originally a continuous transmission between these songs (like on some Pink Floyd albums, on live albums or on operas) than the player should not ADD a gap between the songs since the continuos sound of the music is interrupted.

I can vouch for the gap on the Karma, I have one. There is a small gap. but it goes away, naturally, with crossfade on.

[bradavon]

I know you can't save a dynamic playlist (really strange, and sad that you can't do that) but can you create and/or modify playlists in browser mode or something?

Also is it possible to organize your playlists in folders?
I think you can.

[lasers60]

I thought someone said it was .m3u compatible?

[bradavon]

It is. Why do you ask?